How To Heat And Cool Your Seattle Home

Christian: [0:14] To another episode of the Awesome in Seattle podcast. This is your host Christian Nossum of the Awesome Nossum Group at Wilson Realty Exchange, Inc in the Seattle area. We are a team of Seattle-area real estate agents. I am here with my co-agent extraordinaire, Joanna Beecher.

Joanna: [0:31] Hello. Hello.

Christian: [0:32] Thank you for joining me today.

Joanna: [0:34] Thanks for having me.

Christian: [0:35] So today's episode is all about heating systems, so we're gonna go over everything from oil tanks and oil heating all the way to mini splits or natural gas furnaces or heat pumps. Uh, it's… There's a lot of info, and the reason that we are doing this episode today- Is because we get questions all the time, like-

Joanna: [0:55] All the time

Christian: [0:56] what is this? Is this good? Is this bad? Like, very basic questions. This episode today is really to try to help you get a better understanding of what the different types of systems that we have in the Seattle area, what the pros and cons are, and, you know, if you do want to replace it with something else, what that something else could be. So the first question that we get or that people ask us as their agent is really, what, as agents, should we know about these heating systems when we're looking at houses? Like, should your agent actually know something about it? I feel like they should. I feel like you should have a basic understanding of each heating system.

Joanna: [1:36] Yes.

Christian: [1:36] I don't know if everyone does, but they should. And they should be able to tell you, like, what kind of system is it? What are the pros and cons? What do you think, estimated, the utility bills are gonna be for each type of system? And those are the type of things that, that we can really answer to an extent. The question about how much it's gonna cost every month is a little bit tougher because it's so broad, and there's so many variables. Like, is the house well-insulated? Is it newer construction? Is it from 1902 with no insulation? Is it, um, heated with electric baseboard versus a mini split or whatever? So there's gonna definitely be some variables in there. But let's go over the other types of systems that we see out there. So let's start with oil tanks. Now, this is one of the older heating styles, systems in homes. Should buyers be scared of these, Joanna?

Joanna: [2:26] No, they shouldn't, in short. Why? There's no need to be scared. So what is an oil tank, right? Mm-hmm. An oil tank is just a very large tank used to heat a home. These oil tanks are usually underground, sometimes above, and are about 300 gallons.

Christian: [2:45] Mm-hmm.

Joanna: [2:45] So these are still pretty common, actually. It is a similar price to gas, so it's pretty expensive when you're talking 300 gallons.

Christian: [2:54] Yeah, just a slightly bigger than your, like, 15-gallon car or 25-gallon car- Just a bit tank. Yeah.

Joanna: [2:59] One question we get often from clients is that they are worried about potential leaks.

Christian: [3:05] And- That's fair … Joanna: that is fair. I mean, it's a giant tank of- Of oil … oil in your yard.

Joanna: [3:10] Yeah, so you wanna make sure they're in good shape. But the state had an insurance program-

Christian: [3:14] Mm-hmm … Joanna: called PLIA, which stood for Pollution Liability Insurance. They stopped giving new registrations in 2020, but if you purchase a home with this coverage already, it might be able to be transferred in- Yep … or grandfathered in or however that goes. Yep. But yes, it's definitely not a bad way to heat your home. I grew up with one. Yep. It was just fine. Yeah. I've lived in a couple houses over the years that have had oil heat. Generally, the- oil company, so there's a truck that comes out, and they come out and they fill that giant tank.

Joanna: [3:49] Yeah. And- Usually there's a place out front or- Mm-hmm … just outside of your home that they hook that into and-

Christian: [3:54] Yep, yep.

Joanna: [3:55] Mm-hmm.

Christian: [3:55] And they will usually service your furnace for very, very inexpensive. So they'll sign you up for, like, $100 to $200 a year On an annual service plan. They're gonna be now the preferred provider of your oil, and because of that, they're gonna make sure that that furnace is humming perfectly. And the reason why, if you think about it, they don't want you to replace that thing. They don't want that thing to die. They don't want it to break. They do not want you to go, "I need a new furnace. While I'm at it, I'm gonna get rid of the oil and switch to natural gas or to an electric heat pump," or something like that. Right. So they are really gonna work hard at keeping that system alive and going. Um, so it actually can be, because of that, a pretty inexpensive system to operate for a long period of time, and it's just kinda the way it is. Now, if you are- Yeah … gonna get rid of an oil tank, you are allowed to do that, and that's called decommissioning the oil tank. And what is involved with that is a company that specializes in this, they will come out, they will pump out any oil that's currently in there. They will then clean out the tank, and then they will fill it with sand or a sandy material. And the reason they're doing that is because, at least in Seattle, some other municipalities have different rules, but in Seattle, you can actually l- keep the tank in the ground. You just have to decommission it, fill it with, like I said, some sandy material, and that's because if this metal tank rusts, they don't want it to be creating a sinkhole. So that's, that's kinda the deal. It's really not that much to decommission. Um, I did one on a house about a year ago, and it was around $1,000 to decommission it. Um, it's really not that bad. The City of Seattle and Puget Sound Energy, those are kinda the two main heat providers in the city or in the Seattle area. PUD up north also has this. They often have rebates, so if you are thinking of getting rid of your inefficient oil heater, oil furnace, there's often rebates available. Right now in the City of Seattle, you get a $2,000 rebate if you switch to a Mitsubishi heat pump. So they have specific brands sometimes that you have to switch to as well. Speaking of heat pumps, these are actually about the most favorite thing, uh, among Seattle homeowners. Mm-hmm. The most favorite heat system. And they both heat and cool, which is sweet.

Joanna: [6:15] Yes.

Christian: [6:15] And, and I know the name says heat pump, so most people are confused that they do cooling. But they do. Now that said, they only cool up to about 30 degrees lower than the high temperature. So if it's 100 degrees, you're cooling at 70, which is fine. Yeah. But those weird days last summer or a couple summers ago where it was like 110, it was still like 80 was the max that it would cool it down, which was still very nice compared to outside. So much better

Joanna: [6:40] than

Christian: [6:40] outside. Yes, yes. But they don't work that well in super hot climates. Seattle's not a super hot climate other than maybe a week or so. No. So it works really well in the Seattle area. There's two types of heat pump systems. The first is a mini-split system. So this is where you'll have, like up on the wall, usually toward the ceiling, these three or four-foot wide, maybe a foot or two tall, uh, systems that pump out the air, and there's a condenser that sits outside that helps to get the cool air into the house. Those condensers are not condensers, but heat pump units are now in almost every single bedroom- Mm-hmm … or living space in the house. And, and you can control each one individually, which is sweet.

Joanna: [7:26] Yeah.

Christian: [7:26] They generally cost around 20 to $25,000 to install, so they're not cheap, but they are extremely efficient, and the city is actually pushing these as the preferred method. The other type of heat pump works in conjunction with your forced air furnace. So forced air, that's like, you know, you got the air ducts in the floor or maybe in the ceilings that you're used to seeing, where the air is actually pushed through the ducting all around the house. So with those systems, you don't actually get rid of the furnace. It stays there in place. You just add an outside condenser heat pump unit. Kind of looks like an air conditioner, if you remember those. Mm-hmm. And those are less expensive 'cause you're not replacing the entire system, you're just adding on. So now that heat pump will work in Seattle about 90% of the year. When it gets to freezing or below, that's generally when the furnace kicks in and will work, but the majority of the time, that heat pump's gonna both heat and cool throughout the year.

Joanna: [8:22] What would the, the pricing be on that?

Christian: [8:24] So for that exterior heat pump unit that is in addition to a furnace, they're around 7 to $12,000, depending on the size of the house. Okay. So it'll just depend on, on the size.

Joanna: [8:35] Okay.

Christian: [8:35] Yep.

Joanna: [8:36] So one of the next types of heating that we have to talk about is electric baseboard heat. Um, and what are electric baseboards? They're those long metal heaters, and they're powered by electricity. Typically, these are used in spaces where there isn't ducting. Mm-hmm. These are not very efficient- No … and could be a fire hazard. I know, because every apartment has those. They also produce a really dry heat. Mm-hmm. Also very true, you need a humidifier when you have these. However, they are by far the least expensive- Mm-hmm … of the heating systems to install. Um- To install.

Christian: [9:13] Not to operate

Joanna: [9:14] necessarily. Not to operate- No … but to install. And yeah, being a fire hazard, they're normally installed right where you need cords- Mm-hmm … or right where you're gonna put your couch- Mm-hmm … or your bed, and you're- And they're generally also- … you're not supposed to block it … Speaker: yeah, they're generally, like, also right underneath a window. Always underneath a window. Yeah. It's like, thanks for making that all go right outside. Right

Christian: [9:35] outside on this single-pane window- Yeah … 'cause it's an apartment building.

Joanna: [9:38] Yeah.

Christian: [9:39] Yes.

Joanna: [9:39] So it's a real bummer when you see those in homes, too. Mm-hmm. I know that's something that when my clients are looking, if you see- Mm-hmm the electric baseboard, it's like, ugh.

Christian: [9:48] Yep. That's generally where people will really look at that mini-split system- Yes. Yep … to install to replace those electric baseboards. It's

Joanna: [9:56] worth it if you can do it.

Christian: [9:57] Yep. For sure. And again, there's some rebates out there, so look into those when that time comes.

Joanna: [10:02] It's great to know. So natural gas.

Christian: [10:05] Mm-hmm.

Joanna: [10:05] This is usually with a forced air furnace- Mm-hmm … or a boiler. Uh, generally with forced air you have the ducting popping out of the floors. This is one of those more common types of heating you will see, and cost is around 5 to 10,000 for a unit and installation.

Christian: [10:23] And that's, like, to replace one that's currently in place. Right. If you had to install ducting, if there was maybe electric baseboard before, it usually doesn't make sense, 'cause you have to open up all the walls- Mm-hmm … to get that ducting in there. So that generally doesn't make sense at that point. That's

Joanna: [10:36] where that mini-split, if you wanted

Christian: [10:38] to change. Exactly.

Joanna: [10:38] Yeah. Yep. Okay. Now, a boiler is where natural gas is heating water- Mm-hmm … and the hot water goes through the pipes, and the pipes are usually, but not always, in what looks like those baseboard heaters.

Christian: [10:50] Yep. Yeah, it looks exactly like a baseboard heater, other than the fact that inside is actually, like, a copper pipe. These, you can put furniture right up against it. It's not a fire hazard, 'cause there's no, like, heating coils. Oh, that's so nice. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Joanna: [11:04] Okay.

Christian: [11:04] Um, I've had a house that had boiler heat. They're pretty efficient. It takes a while, like, you can't just turn up the heat and then feel it, 'cause you're pushing hot water through these pipes, and it takes a while for all that to happen. So it's a- Yeah … slower, slower

Joanna: [11:19] heating system. In older homes. Mm-hmm. Like, old ones.

Christian: [11:21] Mm-hmm. ' Joanna: Cause I also lived on the East Coast- Yep … so you would see these a lot in, like- Mm-hmm … their apartments in these old houses. Those kind of like- The big radiator thing … radiator things Yeah Is that what that is? We don't have that a lot in the Seattle area.

Joanna: [11:33] Kind of hisses. Yeah,

Christian: [11:34] yeah. Yeah. We don't have those a lot in the Seattle area. Um, I have seen them generally in, like, school buildings and stuff like that- Mm-hmm, yeah … the really old schools. Yeah. Generally don't see them in houses, though.

Joanna: [11:44] But that would be boiler heat, I would

Christian: [11:45] assume. That's also boiler heat. Got it. Yes.

Joanna: [11:46] Okay,

Christian: [11:46] sorry. Yes.

Joanna: [11:47] Just a- Side note … side note, guys.

Christian: [11:49] Mm-hmm, yep. Yeah. Yeah, we don't really have that in the Seattle area. I couldn't tell you the last time I saw one.

Joanna: [11:53] Hmm.

Christian: [11:54] Yeah. Yeah, they usually now it's- Us New

Joanna: [11:55] England folks- … we know

Christian: [11:57] those Yeah, now it's just that baseboard style. Mm-hmm. The other, other way, and that's what… a perfect segue into- … hydronic heat. Hey. So this also uses hot water, and it's often in either the flooring of, like, a new construction townhouse or a single family home. I love those. Yes, where it's either a concrete or a wood floor, and you have- Like radiant

Joanna: [12:19] heat?

Christian: [12:19] Yeah, the radiant heat- Yeah … underneath, and there's these pipes that just kind of zigzag throughout the entire space. It's similar to boilers, where you got the hot water going through there. The thing with that is it takes forever to change the heat, either both hu- heating it or cooling it down. So if you set it for too high, and you come home, and you're like, "Man, I turned that up way too much," 'cause it can take, like, 12 to 24 hours for it to actually adjust. Hmm. So if you think about it, you gotta heat up that concrete that it's sitting in- Mm-hmm … and then it's gotta radiate above that through the floor into the room. So it's very slow.

Joanna: [12:55] But once you find, like, your

Christian: [12:56] sweet spot- Your sweet spot … with that-

Joanna: [12:57] You don't

Christian: [12:57] touch it

Joanna: [12:58] Yeah, I was about to say- You don't ever wanna touch it you probably don't wanna touch it- Mm-hmm … but also it feels so good

Christian: [13:03] on your

Joanna: [13:03] feet.

Christian: [13:03] It does.

Joanna: [13:05] It does, yeah. Now- Especially during the wintertime,

Christian: [13:06] it's so nice … generally, the only floor, generally, not always, but generally the only floor that has that is either the lowest floor or the lowest and the main floor if the main floor is the living space. In the upper floor or in the bedrooms- Usually they're not gonna have this in the flooring. It's going to be a square, kinda like, two-foot by two-foot box in the wall with a round fan that is behind it, and it has a little switch for high or low. And you're like, "What does that mean, high or low?" That's just the fan speed. So the pipes are back there with the hot water, and it's just sitting there, and there's a fan right behind those pipes, and you're just turning that fan on to kick the air through it to push the heat out. So that's often what we'll see in townhomes, generally in like, built in the mid-2000s, early to mid, late 2000s. That's when it was the most common. All right. AC. So air conditioning is something that you can definitely add to a house in the Seattle area. Usually you're going to add this to a forced air unit. So you got a furnace, it's got forced air coming through the ducts. If you wanted to add AC, you could. You just add an ex- a, basically a condenser outside that is attached to the same ducting. It's about the same cost as a heat pump, usually 6 to $10,000 or so, depending on the square footage of the house, and it does a good job of keeping a house cool. There's not going to be that 30-degree difference between the high outside temperature and the lowest that it can cool, like with a heat pump. But it's not as efficient either, and it uses different gases, which aren't necessarily the greatest for the environment, so that's something to keep in mind. Now, if you don't have forced air heat, adding an AC unit doesn't make a lot of sense in our area, unless you just want it for that week or two that we actually need it. In which case, you can do, like, the window unit, either that's hanging halfway out the, the window, or you got that rolly air conditioner unit with the pipes. Those are

Joanna: [15:02] my- Yeah … Speaker: units of choice.

Christian: [15:04] Yeah.

Joanna: [15:04] Yes.

Christian: [15:05] Yep. So that's, that's air conditioning.

Joanna: [15:08] Are any of these systems buyers should avoid or consider a red flag when they see them when they're touring?

Christian: [15:15] Hmm. I would say no. Yeah. I've owned houses or lived in houses that have pretty much all of these different heating systems. Other than hydronic, I just haven't had a house that had that. But none of these systems should really be a deal breaker. They're all good. They all serve their purpose. It really at the end of the day depends on what your goals are and what you wanna do, either financially or environmentally. Mm-hmm. So that's where that decision comes around.

Joanna: [15:42] And a lot of times I've noticed, especially in, like, condo situations, a lot of condos, especially the older ones, do have that electric baseboard. Mm-hmm. And I don't think there's much you can really do about that- Mm … in that situation, so it shouldn't be a deal breaker in my personal opinion. I think just have to make the best of it really.

Christian: [16:01] Yeah. It is what it is.

Joanna: [16:02] It is what it is. Mm-hmm. And it'll get your condo warm.

Christian: [16:06] Yes, exactly. Yep.

Joanna: [16:08] The next 10 years will bring some innovation in heating. First off, heat pumps are currently being renovated to work in colder climates-

Christian: [16:15] No, that's great, 'cause- … by

Joanna: [16:15] the government

Christian: [16:16] yeah, right now- Yeah … they kinda stop working when it gets to around freezing. They just don't work that well anymore, so that's great.

Joanna: [16:22] Right. Micro heat pumps are also under development.

Christian: [16:25] Hmm.

Joanna: [16:26] These would drape over windows and can be easily installed by homeowners who want to lower their heating bill.

Christian: [16:31] Interesting.

Joanna: [16:32] Who doesn't wanna lower their heating bill?

Christian: [16:33] Yeah. I've never actually even heard of that. I know. So I wanna look into that.

Joanna: [16:36] Sounds super cool.

Christian: [16:37] Yeah.

Joanna: [16:37] Additionally, technology continues to improve to be able to better estimate how much heat pump a house is requiring, and along with energy audits- Mm-hmm that will help determine the leaking of ducts and potentially improvements to get better efficiency from the systems.

Christian: [16:52] Yeah. Now, if you are in an older house, or even a newer house, and you think that you're feeling drafts come through your home and stuff like that, you can do something called an energy audit It's where you hire an expert to come out and they put, like, a giant fan attached to the front door of your home, and they create, they try to create a vacuum. And so then they pump out, they suck out the air, and then they have all these different ways that they can try and see where the air is coming in, whether it's through electrical outlets, which is very common. Obviously, windows are an issue. Mm-hmm. Doors, all those fun little things. So they can find that, and then they can try and block the air from leaving those spaces so that your home will be more insulated.

Joanna: [17:36] That's- It's

Christian: [17:36] very interesting … Joanna: that's very good to know for a lot of the older homes that are- Mm-hmm … Joanna: in and around Seattle area. Yep. All right, so I hope that that really helped you get a better understanding of all the different heat si- styles out there, heating systems out there in the Greater Seattle area. At the end of the day, all you really need to know is there's not a single one that you really need to be super concerned with. There's some that are better than others. There's some that are more environmentally friendly. There's some that are more expensive to operate, and there's some that are less expensive, and that's kinda the whole point of all this. It's just so you could get a better understanding, big picture, of what's going on, what the different options are, and then you can decide what makes sense for you. If you have any questions about it, feel free to reach out. We can connect you with some heating suppliers out there that if you are looking at redoing your stuff, your systems in your house, just let us know. We got good referrals. If you are ready to start talking about buying, if you're like, "I have oil heat and I don't wanna deal with all that, I just wanna move," hey, guess what? We're real estate agents. We can help you out. Uh, you can always schedule a time to chat with us right on our website, AwesomeNossumGroup.com/schedule. It's totally free to reach out to us and chat. We're no pressure. We'll just talk with you. You can also just call us. All our numbers are listed right on our website, AwesomeNossumGroup.com. That's it for this episode of the Awesome in Seattle Podcast. I hope you enjoyed it. I hope you learned a lot. If you did, please leave us a review. We would love that. We're getting some good ones coming in so far, and they really do help others find our podcast. We've been doing this now for over four years, believe it or not, and, uh, we've h- add a lot of value out there for, for people, and people really appreciate it. So if that also is you, please leave us a r- a review. We would really appreciate it. Thank you so much.

Joanna: [19:19] Thank you. Bye.