2021 Real Estate Predictions

Speaker 1: [0:09] Hello there, and welcome to another episode of the Awesome in Seattle podcast. This is your host, Christian Awesome, with the Awesome Nossum Group at Wilson Realty. We are a group of Seattle real estate agents that love to talk about Seattle, love to talk about the Seattle real estate market And today, we are doing our 2021 real estate predictions. This is always one of our more popular episodes. So, uh, how we're gonna break this down is first we're gonna go over what the experts are telling us or saying. First we'll go over national, then we'll go over the Seattle area, and then we'll kinda say what they're saying with the mortgage market and, and give an idea of what they're expecting for that. Then after all that, then we will actually give our predictions on all those things. So stay around to the end, see what we think, and then, uh, and then hold us to it so we can check back in again next year and see how well we did. So first off, let's go into national. What are the experts saying? Les, I know you did a bunch of research on this. What, uh, what are they saying out there?

Speaker 2: [1:12] All right. Well, 2020 seems like the longest year ever with COVID- … election, just all kinds of craziness, um, social justice issues. Preach. Everything. Just whatever could go wrong, it went wrong in 2020. Like, everything went wrong. S- but anyway, as how it affected the housing market, well, home values nationwide increased by 8.2%, which I feel is pretty big nationwide. Um, we talked a- Huge. Huge … we talked a- we talked about it a lot our last podcast. What, what's the national average prior to that? Was it, like, around 5% or 4%? I think

Speaker 3: [1:48] it's

Speaker 2: [1:49] 4%, yeah. 4%. Okay. So 8.2% nationwide, so almost double than what's the typical appreciation. So where will home values go in 2021? Well, as of right now, according to the National Association of Realtors, let me just put things in perspective for you guys. So s- the current amount of single family homes for sale is at 1,080,000. At this exact same time last year, that number was 1,450,000. So we are entering 2021 with around, what, 300,000, 380,000, uh, houses less or fewer homes for sale than there was a year ago. So-

Speaker 1: [2:31] It sounds like the, the, uh, the same thing that we're going on here in the Seattle

Speaker 2: [2:35] area market. E- exactly. I mean,

Speaker 1: [2:36] supply and demand is just out of whack, and that's part of the reason why prices are going up so

Speaker 2: [2:41] quickly. Right. Right, right. So the experts are predicting that for 2021, home appreciation will be around 6%. And the reason for this, number one, as we get a hold on COVID and we start rolling out the vaccine and that kind of thing, more homeowners are gonna be comfortable putting their houses on the market. Because one big thing I noticed, especially in my area, I pay close attention to my area, a lot of houses went for sale at the end of February last year, March. Kind of typical, you know, that typical bell curve that we always talk about. A lot of homes went for sale. On, on show. But once Inslee shut the state down, or once, you know, things were shut down, a lot of those were withdrawn from the market or they were canceled, you know what I mean? Yep. So a lot of people didn't want… We didn't know what COVID was yet. You know, all we heard how easy it was to spread, so people didn't want that foot traffic in their house. So as people feel more comfortable with this virus and people coming through their house, you're gonna see more and more homes come on the sale- on, on the market.

Speaker 3: [3:39] Yeah. Um- And I think, just to tag in- Oh, yeah … I, you're completely right. I think a lot of that was just the uncertainty-

Speaker 2: [3:45] Right … Speaker 3: with COVID, right? Like- Mm-hmm … you know, if, if you're thinking of selling, both buyers and sellers, they want certainty.

Speaker 4: [3:52] Right.

Speaker 3: [3:52] They wanna know what's gonna happen with the market, but also with their job. And so if a, there's a lot of uncertainty with that, they, you know, it's like, "Well, maybe I don't wanna sell this yet because it might be good to have this." Right. I, I don't know what's gonna happen in the next year with my job and with anything. So yeah, I think you're right. It's gonna be interesting to see how, if there's this pent-up supply that, over the last year… We did see a good amount of listings c- pop on after a few months. Like in-

Speaker 2: [4:19] Right … Speaker 3: May, June, July of last year. It took a few months, but it picked up. It'll be interesting to see, and I, I do think that there is a, a backlog of people just kinda waiting for the dust to settle. Right. And kind of see where

Speaker 3: [4:30] things are going. And then, and then they'll make, make some moves. Yeah,

Speaker 2: [4:33] for sure. Yep. For sure. Exactly. Exactly. Um, and you know, s- and we touched on this last time, too, so the second reason why we're probably gonna see more inventory this coming year nationally is because financially, a lot of people were impacted with the economy going down, losing their job, being furloughed, laid off, whatever you wanna call it. So financially, they're gonna have to be forced to sell. Mm-hmm. The only thing, where we compared this last time, back in 2008, people didn't have the equity so they were foreclosed on. This time, at least a lot of people have the equity in their house to where they're forced to sell and they're not gonna get foreclosed on. Yep. So that's, that, that's, that's an awesome thing. But then there's the demand as well. We gotta talk about buyers, you know? Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1: [5:12] Well, and to piggyback off what you just said, too, what's gonna happen is the, the people that are forced to sell, they're not always going to buy again. They are often going to go to a less expensive area and probably rent because they're gonna be living off of the funds- that they just earned from selling their home in order to, you know, survive. 'Cause if they lost their job, they're probably not making a lot of money. They're getting their some unemployment- Right … uh, some stimulus money. But it's, it's not a ton, and often not enough- Right … until things open back

Speaker 3: [5:46] up. Which would be interesting to see the effects of that because the rental market has not had a good year, right? Yep. Yep. So if now there's a ton of renters, do we see a huge reprieve in that regard? It'll, you know-

Speaker 1: [5:59] And that's, that's what I'm seeing from some of the research I've done, is that it, it depend- obviously it's very geographic driven. But in, in a lot of areas, they're, they're predicting that the rental market will tighten back up. It's been- You know, not great, especially in these downtown cores. I don't know if those are necessarily gonna tighten back up in terms of inventory. Right. Uh, really that's not gonna happen, and that's what they're predicting is it's not gonna happen in those areas until the vaccine's really ho- rolled out and, you know, companies are having people go back to the office because that's gonna, you know, lead to more of those auxiliary businesses that support the office workers, the restaurants, the coffee shops, the bars. That lifestyle feel in these downtown cores, which is gone right now, those are gonna have to come back in order for, for kind of that downtown core rental, uh, market to pick up a bunch.

Speaker 2: [6:57] Right. And let's talk about the demand. So the lo- low mortgage rates, right, over the past, uh- Mm-hmm … year. So according to Freddie Mac, um, rates at this time last year, they were at 3.72%. At the beginning of 2020, '21, this year, they're one full percentage point lower. So money is dirt cheap, and obviously when buyers see that, they're gonna wanna get out there. So that's gonna keep the demand high. But with all these factors coming together, the appreciation, it's gonna be there, and they're predicting 6% nationwide, but it's gonna be much steadier than last year, so it's not gonna be double the amount. So that's pretty much it. Things will continue to appreciate. There's gonna be the demand. There's gonna be a little b- there's, uh, predicted to be a little bit more, um, supply, but, um, we'll just wait and see, and see what happens, how this all plays out.

Speaker 1: [7:46] Jason, do you have other national data that you wanna talk about? I have a little bit that I'll talk about.

Speaker 3: [7:51] Yeah. I thought it was really interesting. I saw that kind of what Cr- uh, Les was saying about interest rates. Because money was so cheap, with historically low interest rates, a lot of home buyers came out of the woodwork. And quite frankly, a lot of people who were renting, with COVID, they realized, "Oh, I don't wanna rent anymore. I need more space. I want a house. I want a yard." Mm-hmm. So a lot of home buyers came out of the woodwork, like we were saying. Home ownership, the rate of home ownership increased two percentage points last year, from 65%- What? … to 67%. Oh, wow. Which- Wow … doesn't sound like a lot, but that-

Speaker 1: [8:27] No,

Speaker 3: [8:27] that is … that's pretty dramatic. And, you know, w- we've had so many years of a down, of increased rental rates that- Mm-hmm … it's interesting. That's, like, just starkly the, uh, effects of COVID right there, that it, it kind of r- reversed that for a year at least.

Speaker 1: [8:43] That is really interesting. And one, one thing that I saw, uh, from the National, National Association of Home Builders was that, you know, what they were saying is that home builder confidence is near-record highs, and they're continuing, or they're expecting to continue gains for single family construction, which has just been going bonkers right now. You know, they're seeing a lot more building further out from the city core because there's now that great demand for more space, more bedrooms, more office space in the home, and, uh, and they're continuing to see that, that trend going into 2021. They're not predicting it to be as strong as 2020 ended up being, but they're gonna pr- but they are predicting it to be quite a bit more. They're the-

Speaker 3: [9:29] And to be clear, that, that's mainly single family construction, right? Correct. Yeah. Because i- I would be fascinated, and I have a feeling the opposite's true for large scale developments. I saw a lot- That

Speaker 1: [9:39] would- … Speaker 3: where, you know, people are saying multi-year projects, you might, uh, there's more risk because there's uncertainty right now. Mm-hmm. I, I completely would agree with that assumption. I don't have any data with it to back that up. Yeah. But that would just make sense with what's going on. Um- Let's go to the Seattle area. Let's talk about what the experts are saying there.

Speaker 3: [10:03] Oh my gosh, Seattle. We've had an amazing 10 years, have we not?

Speaker 1: [10:06] Yes, we have. Uh, uh, one stat that I saw was that Seattle had increased the… W- well, we're in with the, we're in the top 10 of home price appreciation over the last 10 years in the nation.

Speaker 3: [10:18] Yeah.

Speaker 1: [10:19] It's been quite a run.

Speaker 3: [10:21] Yeah. It's been very just consistent year over year, more or less. Although, after the height of the market in May of tw- 2018, prices did kind of plateau for about a year and a half, and then last year they just took off again. One of the data points I have, of course, if you, if you look at different sources, they all have slightly different numbers here, and we're gonna, uh, talk about several of these. But looks like Zillow is saying that home prices in Seattle went up 10.6% in the last year, and they expect prices to rise about 8.7% in 2021. Another source, realtor.com, said that out of the 100 largest metros, Seattle was the second in terms of annual home price growth, number one being San Jose. So Seattle has been just very strong. Regardless of the source, we might not be number one, we might not be number two, but we're in the top, and it's just been a very sustained growth since really 2011. And the fundamentals of Seattle just continue to shine through COVID, through Amazon's announcement that they were going to open more headquarters, and the shock that that brought to the city, the initial shock, and just seeing that actually home values, they sustained themselves during that. With the news from Boeing, what they've been going through for the last couple years, you know, it's been interesting to see just how strong Seattle has remained.

Speaker 1: [11:52] Yep. Yeah, I actually saw that realtor.com for 2021 is also predicting that San Jose will continue to be the most appreciating market and Seattle will be number two.

Speaker 3: [12:02] Yeah. I, I do wanna take a moment and discuss Case, Case-Shiller really quick. Yeah. Uh, so-

Speaker 1: [12:08] Yeah … Speaker 3: there's a lot of ways to analyze home prices. One of the most common ways, probably the most common way, is just to say the median sales price this month is 750,000, which is 10% higher than it was last year. And that's a great metric, but that doesn't actually give you a ton of information. It can mislead you, because- Mm-hmm … the dynamics of the market can really change. For example, with COVID, uh, condos are suppressed. Condos on average are significantly cheaper than single-family homes in Seattle. And so if fewer condos are being sold- Then the median sales price, a- as a percentage of overall sales, then the median sales price very likely will increase, and that might give you the impression, all right, well, uh, home prices are 10% higher. That's not necessarily true. The… If you're going off that metric, what it might mean simply is on average the home that is selling is selling… is 10% more expensive. Um, and so there's a lot of ways to normalize this data. The most common is, uh, using indexes, b- the m- main one being the Case-Shiller index. And so for the top 20 largest metro regions, Case-Shiller analyzes repeat home sales only. Not new properties, just repeat home sales. And the, the goal here is to normalize the data somewhat because over time, homes have gotten larger. That can manipulate the data because then, you know, our… if home prices have increased but home sh- sizes have doubled, you know, what is that really telling us, though? And what if two families now are living together more co- more often than they were in the past? That, you know, you need to normalize the data. So Case-Shiller, that's my whole spiel with that. Just to throw the numbers- Thank you, data guru Jason. Yeah. I know everyone's… Now that your eyes are glazed over. Uh, yeah. So the US National Home Price Index for Case-Sill- Shiller, it's a few months old because it takes a few months for the data to be updated. So at the end of last month we got October's numbers. Home prices in the U- US increased by 8.4%, according to Case-Shiller. Seattle increased 11.7%, so quite a bit above the national average, but both very phenomenal. I just wanted to throw that at you. That's what the index is saying. You'll see both numbers presented in different articles and that sort of thing. Yep. So what I was, uh, what I, I was reading from some of the big, you know, companies out there in the local real estate market. So Redfin, for instance, they're headquartered here. Same with Zillow. They obviously have a ton of data at their disposal that is proprietary data that they're using in addition to what they're projecting. And Redfin's kinda thinking that there is going to be a little bit of a window of opportunity because they're… I, I know I'm jumping to mortgage rates, but not really. They're predicting that mortgage rates are gonna creep up about halfway through 2021, and there's a window of opportunity for people when rates are still at their lowest ever, and when the prices of homes are going to also really start to increase yet again, which they're saying is gonna happen in potentially the second half of the year here in Seattle specifically. And they don't see any sort of a slowdown for the Seattle area housing market in 2021 at all. They're saying, and this is a quote, "I would put that out to 2022 or later." And that's from Daryl Fairweather, who is the resident, uh, data guru at Redfin.

Speaker 3: [15:49] Yeah, so just to rehash, uh, because I'm sure a lot of people listening h- saw this as well, and it was stated earlier, but Zillow did say, so for Seattle over the past year, home prices have gone up 10.6. They expect for 2021 prices to still go up, but slightly less at 8.7%. So s- again, strong growth, slightly less than 2020, but nobody's gonna sneeze at that. Yeah, exactly. 8.7%, right?

Speaker 1: [16:18] All right. Well, let's go into mortgage rates, what, uh, the experts are saying about that. I can kinda start off. Lawrence Yun, who's the chief economist at the National Association of Realtors, he thinks rates will be similar or modestly higher, maybe around 3%. So mortgage rates will continue to be historically favorable throughout 2021. I kinda already talked about what Redfin was assuming. They were saying, you know, the first half of the year they're gonna stay this l- record low, and then they are going to start to increase in the second half of the year. They didn't give a hard number as to what they thought it would end at, uh, but that's kinda what they were saying. Do you guys have some other data that you pulled?

Speaker 3: [17:00] Yeah, I mean, I think all, uh, I saw pretty much aligned with that. I get the sense that with interest rates people find one source, you know, like the feds, and they're like, "Okay, this is what, what's happening." But then with- Yeah. Exactly … with home prices, everyone's kinda like, "Well, my analysis is slightly different."

Speaker 2: [17:16] Right. Well, um, I- Yep … I'll chime in here. If you are considering refinancing, you may wanna do it sooner than later. That's one thing to do.

Speaker 3: [17:26] Good point.

Speaker 2: [17:27] So- That's a really good point … uh, rather than just wait to s- or expect, or if you're expecting them to drop even lower, um, I don't see that happening and a lot of experts are predicting they, they may rise slightly. So if you're gonna refinance, refinance right now.

Speaker 3: [17:40] Who knows? We're not psychics, but we're- It's

Speaker 2: [17:42] true … Speaker 3: nobody seems to be anticipating crazy high interest rates any time soon regardless. But we are historically low rates at the moment. Very likely it won't get lower than this. It should go up over 2021.

Speaker 1: [17:57] Yeah. And they're around 2.5%-ish, give or take. I mean, they change numerous times a day, but that's about where we're at. I was talking to a lender just yesterday actually, and he was telling me that last week he locked someone in on a 2.25 30-year fixed loan, and a 1.875 15-year fixed loan Oh my

Speaker 3: [18:23] gosh.

Speaker 1: [18:24] Amazing which is just insane. I mean, that is just crazy. So they are record lows. In 2020 there were 15 new records hit for low interest rates, so they just continued to drop throughout the year. We always felt like we were being sleazy salespeople saying, "We have new r- lows. You gotta, you gotta jump on this." But it really was what was happening. We weren't trying to be salesy at all. We were just telling what's out there, what's going on. And there were new r- lows every single month almost, uh, if not more than once a month. So it was pretty crazy.

Speaker 2: [19:01] How many times did we have to tell our clients that again?

Speaker 4: [19:04] 15

Speaker 1: [19:04] times.

Speaker 4: [19:07] And if you don't know the reference, listen to the last podcast.

Speaker 1: [19:11] Exactly. The 2020 recap. Um, all right. So we're all in agreement that what the experts are saying in terms of interest rates, you know, they're gonna probably stick around this 2.5 to 3% for the first half of the year, and then maybe 3 to 3.5 for the second half. Is that kinda what we're hearing? That's what I'm seeing, at least.

Speaker 3: [19:33] Yeah. I mean, the, the, uh, people are saying I think the upper end is 3.5. A lot of people think it'll hover closer to 3.

Speaker 1: [19:40] I mean, there's so many factors that come into play too, so it's, it's tough to say what will happen.

Speaker 3: [19:44] Yeah, and we have a new administration coming in. A new administration. Yeah.

Speaker 1: [19:47] Exactly. Yep. All right. Well, let's give our predictions, uh, about the Seattle area market. Jason, I know you are probably chomping at the bit as you, since you are the data guru, so let's go over what you're thinking.

Speaker 3: [20:01] I think, uh, houses, prices are going to plummet 10%. No, I'm kidding. Um, I think, just to throw a number out there, it'll be very interesting to see how well we do with our predictions in a year. So let, listen back at this in, uh, January- Mm-hmm … 2022. Wow. That's crazy.

Speaker 1: [20:23] Wow. That is weird to say.

Speaker 3: [20:25] I saw a tweet the other day and it was like, "C- I can't believe somebody born in the year 2020 is 40 years old." And I died. It's like, yeah, it feels like that, doesn't it?

Speaker 1: [20:38] I saw, I saw a tweet saying someone was checking out at the grocery store with alcohol, and they said, "Can I see your ID?" And they s- showed it to them, and they go, "I'm good. I saw the one." And they were like, "The one?" It was like, yeah, anything, if you were born in any year that started with one, nine, whatever, you're over 21 years old- Oh … 'cause it's 2021.

Speaker 3: [20:59] Oof.

Speaker 1: [21:00] I was like, oh.

Speaker 3: [21:01] Wow. Weird. Yeah.

Speaker 1: [21:03] Anyways-

Speaker 3: [21:03] Yeah … Speaker: let's back to our predictions. Yeah. I didn't even

Speaker 1: [21:05] think of that.

Speaker 2: [21:05] That's so true. Total sidetrack. Sorry.

Speaker 3: [21:07] Yeah. I'm thinking prices in Seattle will appreciate between 7 to 8% next year, so let's go with 7.5.

Speaker 1: [21:15] Good prediction. Okay. Les, what are you thinking?

Speaker 2: [21:18] Um, I'm gon- I'm gonna go ahead and say, hmm I'm gonna go

Speaker 1: [21:27] ocho, eight Okay. 8%. I was actually thinking nine to 10, so I'm gonna actually just stick with nine, um- Which means

Speaker 3: [21:33] it'll be 10.

Speaker 1: [21:35] Exactly. Uh, and that's often how it works with my predictions. If you go back to the days that Dan Keller and I had Seattle Real Estate Radio on KKOL 1300 AM, uh, which everyone I'm sure listened to AM radio a few years ago, we would do the same exact show, and our predictions were always about the same. I feel like we're a freaking broken record repeating the same predictions every single year. But they've actually been panning out every year, so it's, uh, it's been fine. In terms of what's gonna happen in our specific market, I wanna kinda break that down a little. So I think single family homes are going to continue, and I'm sure you guys 100% agree with me, I think they're going to continue appreciate, or to appreciate at a brisk rate. I think, though, that the condo market, especially the inner core, Seattle core condo market, is gonna continue to lag behind that in appreciation.

Speaker 2: [22:28] Um, yeah.

Speaker 1: [22:29] What would you guys say?

Speaker 2: [22:30] I think the condo market for some reason I think it's gonna take a little bit of a hit. I think it's gonna take a dip. Um, uh, not a dip, but like you said, I guess lag. I mean, you said it correctly, lag. It's gonna be very, very slow. With what I'm seeing everywhere as far as condos go, I, I, I don't think it's gonna be able to keep up with the single family market.

Speaker 3: [22:49] Yeah. I disagree, and I think this is all dependent on how COVID plays out this year. Mm. That's a good point. Um, I think- Yes … we are all thinking, uh, there will be long-term consequences to COVID, but I think, and I'm a pessimist so it's shocking that I'm saying this, but I just have a feeling i- we're gonna go back to more of a normal than we anticipate with a lot of things. A lot of people will be working from home, but a lot of people will not, and I can see people really take advantage, you know, when things kind of settle down, like, "This is my chance to move b- back into the city, you know, in that condo that I dreamed of having a few years ago, and now it's kind of in my reach." So I wouldn't be surprised if actually condos rebound if COVID is dealt with quickly and, and the economy kind of recovers. That's kind of what that's dependent on. Well,

Speaker 2: [23:40] in the surrounding areas I don't think condos are gonna do that well, though.

Speaker 3: [23:43] Yeah, I think you might be… Yeah, that might be, uh-

Speaker 2: [23:45] I, I, I would agree with you on that I, I don't think so. But, um, uh, definitely Seattle C- City Center, once things start opening up, I, I, I can, I c- I think I'm with you on that one.

Speaker 1: [23:54] Yeah. I think I would agree, too. I just don't know. I think I'm so brainwashed by thinking this will never end that I'm just assuming it's gonna take a long time for- The market to, well, not the market, but, you know, COVID vaccinations and all that stuff to really take effect. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 3: [24:12] Yeah.

Speaker 1: [24:12] Uh, I think that's where my pessimism is coming into play with my condo prediction. In terms of the suburbs, I mean, 2020 we saw a lot of suburbs increase in price dramatically, and I think in terms of single family homes in those suburbs, I have a feeling that's gonna continue to increase probably at a more like a 10 to 11% rate. That's my prediction. And this is, I'm talking surrounding suburbs to the north like Lynnwood, Edmonds area. Uh, on the east side, I think they're gonna continue to increase at a, at a higher rate than that. Well, no, I'd say actually probably about that 10, 11%. For the east side and then to the south, I actually think they're gonna appreciate and continue to appreciate at a higher rate than, than this kind of North Seattle, Seattle downtown core. I think South Seattle and then, you know, Renton, Burien, that area, I think they're gonna a- appreciate more in the 13 to 15% range. Um-

Speaker 2: [25:11] Yeah. I, I think Snohomish County and Pierce County, or well, Pierce for sure is gonna be- Yeah … uh, I would say plus 15%. I think it's gonna go up a little bit more. And then, um, Snohomish County as well, I'd say a little bit under that. It's gonna be, it's gonna trail it. Um, there's a lot of new construction here too happening, so I think it's gonna continue to appreciate. I agree.

Speaker 3: [25:31] Yep. COVID really sped up the transition that we were seeing already, that we saw over the last 10 years with light rail starting to be constructed and opening up these new corridors, these new commutes- Mm-hmm that people before would never even imagine. And then of course, Pierce, like y'all have said, just to, you know, repeat for the third time, because clearly I need my voice in here too, apparently. But, uh- … yeah, you know, prices have been so low in Pierce for so long that-

Speaker 1: [26:01] Mm-hmm … Speaker 3: uh, they really are seeing shocking year over year appreciation.

Speaker 2: [26:06] Right.

Speaker 1: [26:06] Yep. It was the, uh, as far, f- according to one, one metric that I saw, Tacoma was again the number one market in the nation for the second year in the row. So- Yeah, I don't see that really slowing down. It's just, uh, for anyone that is looking at getting out of Seattle but still wants kind of that downtown or, or more inner core feel, Tacoma is so much less expensive. They're able to do that. So mortgage rates, I feel like we already talked about that so much. I don't think we really need to beat that. I think we're all in agreement that, you know, the first half of the year for sure they're gonna stay around this two and a half to three, and then for the second half of 2021 they're gonna go up. To what number, who knows, but, you know, three, three and a half percent. Uh, and that will eventually start to slow down and the, the house, house buying, house purchasing market, um-

Speaker 3: [26:58] Well, and it might speed up condos … Speaker: because, it, it's true. It's a good point. Um, the more expensive homes are and the higher interest rates are, the more people are going to not be able to afford them, so they're gonna have to look at the lower price options out there, which are condos, and that might help drive that market up. So we shall see. It's going to be an interesting 2021 for sure. Let's all cross our fingers that COVID gets under control as soon as possible and we can hopefully get back to more of a normal, whatever the hell normal is. And, uh, and I think it's gonna be a new normal, that's for sure. I don't think we're going back to what exactly we had before, and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. That's my prediction. That's my opinion. Um, if you guys don't wanna add anything, feel free to jump in.

Speaker 2: [27:44] No. Um, that's pretty much it. Last thoughts. I think we're good.

Speaker 1: [27:47] Yeah. Well, perfect. All right. Well, for Jason Saldarriaga and Les Cutting, I am Christian Nossum. We are the Nossum & Nossum group. Thank you so much for listening to the Nossum in Seattle podcast. If you have not yet, please subscribe, share our predictions if you are so inclined, and, you know, it always helps the algorithms know that people like us, so until next time, thanks for listening. You like me. You guys stay-

Speaker 3: [28:10] You really like me … Speaker 2: you guys stay healthy. Bye.