Financing Top Three

Speaker 1: [0:09] Hello, hello, and welcome to the Awesome in Seattle podcast. This is Christian Nossum with the Awesome Nossum Group, and we are here in Seattle again with the one and only Mr… Jason Saldarriaga, as

Speaker 2: [0:20] always. ' Speaker: Cause that's always how he introduces himself. Today we have an extremely special guest, the one and only Mr. Dan Kellar with CrossCountry Mortgage. Dan.

Speaker 3: [0:32] Hello, hello.

Speaker 1: [0:33] Do your little intro that we used to do on the radio show.

Speaker 2: [0:36] Oh, gosh. Do you

Speaker 3: [0:37] remember that? I… Yeah. Can I even remember that? All I remember is that we always made fun of my MLO number.

Speaker 1: [0:43] Yes.

Speaker 3: [0:43] And I would always say my, you know, my MLO number is 115349, and then you'd jump in with niner.

Speaker 1: [0:49] Yes, every time. So

Speaker 3: [0:50] yeah.

Speaker 1: [0:50] Niner. Yep.

Speaker 3: [0:51] Yeah.

Speaker 1: [0:51] Yeah. So, uh, why don't you give a quick rundown of who- Yep … you are and why you are here as our mortgage expert.

Speaker 3: [0:58] Yeah. I'm a mortgage professional here in the Seattle market. I've been in the mortgage industry going on my 12th year. Nice. So yeah, I'm, I'm considered, I guess, a veteran at this point- which, which is nice. Um, branch manager as well, so I oversee and manage a branch and, um, crazy, crazy, uh, busy right now just helping people. It's a, you know, a lot of people that are interested in buying right now in Seattle, and Seattle's one of the hottest markets in the country, and- Mm-hmm … we're super blessed to, uh, be knee-deep in this market.

Speaker 1: [1:32] Yeah. So today we wanted to go over the top three questions that both Jason and I, and Sarah Kate and Charlotte as well, and I think you as well, get every day in terms of mortgages. Mm-hmm. And the top three questions that I think we should talk about are rate locks, what do they mean, how does it work, uh, trying to figure out to… if we wanna choose between a 15-year fixed interest rate or 15-year fixed loan, or a 30-year.

Speaker 2: [1:58] Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1: [1:58] Um, and then the difference between pre-approval and pre-underwritten. And, and those are really the main things that I think we should talk about today. Mm-hmm. Does that sound, sound fair to you?

Speaker 2: [2:08] Works for me, yeah.

Speaker 1: [2:09] Dan, are you prepared?

Speaker 3: [2:10] I am pre- I better be prepared. Yeah, this is, uh, this is in our wheelhouse. And I, and I commend you guys for doing this- Mm … because it's, uh, a lot of times real estate agents dodge these questions. Oh, yeah. And in the-

Speaker 1: [2:22] I've heard, yeah, I've heard people go, "I asked my agent about this, and they- Yeah didn't really know."

Speaker 3: [2:26] Yeah. And I'm like, eh. Or they fumble through it. And, and I know you guys know the answers, and I appreciate you guys having me on to share these, but the, the low interest rate environment that we're in right now, everyone is talking about interest rates. Yeah. And they're more cautious of it because they're reading about it- Yep and they're getting ads. So yeah, I commend you guys for, for bringing this up.

Speaker 1: [2:43] So let's talk about interest- or rate locks first. Mm-hmm. Interest rate locks. First off, what is that? What does that mean?

Speaker 3: [2:50] Well, it, it pretty much is what it is. Rate lock. Yes. You know, we're lock- Mm-hmm. Yeah, we're locking in your rate, and then it's protecting you against market volatility regarding your rate. And we- So

Speaker 1: [3:02] when do you do that then?

Speaker 3: [3:03] Yeah. You, that's a really good question. So traditionally speaking, and most commonly speaking- Okay … you lock in your interest rate when you get a contract accepted on a home. Okay. So when you reach mutual acceptance. But let me backtrack on what does it mean. Y- you're locking in your rate because the market moves multiple times a day. Yep. So this is all the more reason why it's important to work with a local mortgage professional that understands the market movement. Mm-hmm. So as the market moves, typically we, when we pre-approve clients, we let them know where the market's at, where it's been, and where I believe it's heading. Okay. And then as you guys are negotiating and you, um, are negotiating offer and you're reaching mutual acceptance, we have a rate lock strategy call typically within 24 hours of mutual acceptance. Got it. So let me tell you how that differs from big banks and credit unions. Mm-hmm. Big banks and credit unions and online lenders automatically lock your interest rate when the contract comes across their desk.

Speaker 1: [4:00] Hmm.

Speaker 3: [4:01] Now let me tell-

Speaker 1: [4:01] So even if they know or should know, hey, this big announcement's coming out tomorrow, everyone expects interest rates to drop, they don't necessarily care?

Speaker 3: [4:11] It's more to they don't know, unfortunately, Christian. Hmm. They just don't know when to lock, and that's why they don't do that. Not to mention- If you disclose something-

Speaker 1: [4:21] Mm-hmm … and

Speaker 3: [4:22] you don't lock in time, you pay the difference or y- Yeah … or you have to re-disclose. Meaning the

Speaker 1: [4:27] bank pays

Speaker 3: [4:27] the difference. The bank pays the difference or you have to re-disclose and the customer pays the difference. Right. And now you have an upset customer, and then they go out shopping, and then they move their money from ABC Bank to XYZ Bank. Yep. So, um, what we do is we do that rate lock strategy call at mutual acceptance. Mm-hmm. And we've sent out disclosures, but then I give our clients the opportunity to allow me to do what I do best, and that's watch the markets to help them save money. And I'll tell you that if I were to be locking clients right now when their contracts came in, well, just a great example, your client the other night, saved him almost a quarter percent in interest rate by waiting a week and a half.

Speaker 1: [5:05] Yep.

Speaker 3: [5:06] A quarter percent on an $800,000 loan over the life of the loan is a lot of money. That's a

Speaker 1: [5:10] lot of

Speaker 3: [5:10] money. Yeah, a lot of money. It's a,

Speaker 1: [5:12] yeah, hundreds of dollars a month savings.

Speaker 3: [5:14] Yep. Yep. And then factor that over the life of the loan.

Speaker 1: [5:17] Exactly.

Speaker 3: [5:17] So that's kind- I wanted to explain that's what a rate lock is. When do you do it? Traditionally, you lock in your interest rate when you have an offer accepted on a home, when you reach mutual acceptance. Now, there are exceptions to that. Mm-hmm. New construction. Mm-hmm. And now th- as we're finding ourself in a low interest rate environment, you can actually, and I'm not here to sell this, promote this, because I'm not a huge advocate for it when you have a professional like myself watching rates, but there's lock and shop programs. So you can pay a non-refundable fee up front to the bank And lock in your interest rate at additional costs- Hmm … to preserve that low interest rate. Okay? So in an interest rate market where interest rates are going up rapidly, that might make sense.

Speaker 1: [6:01] Got

Speaker 3: [6:01] it. I still wouldn't. Okay? Yeah. But traditionally speaking, you lock in your loan, uh, once your offer has been accepted on a home. Okay. It's attached to an address.

Speaker 1: [6:09] And then does that expire at some point? How long does that

Speaker 3: [6:12] last? Yeah, just another really good question. So traditionally-

Speaker 1: [6:15] I'm full of them. That's kinda what I do. I just have really good questions.

Speaker 3: [6:18] So there are loan- It's a gift … there's loan level pricing exceptions- … for rates and rate locks. Okay. So a 15-day rate lock, um, has the best possible pricing. A 30-day rate lock, which is standard, has the next best, and then you can go 45 days, 60, 90, 180. And as you go outside of that 30-day window, there starts to become costs- Associated … which you've referred to as discount points. So maybe- Which is not

Speaker 1: [6:48] a discount in

Speaker 3: [6:50] terms of cheaper.

Speaker 1: [6:51] It's the op- Yeah. It's more expensive.

Speaker 3: [6:52] Exactly. Yeah. So for example, the difference between a 30-day rate lock and a 60-day rate lock might be a difference of a .125% discount point, so relatively small. Um, and then with new construction, a lot of the times with our clients buying new construction, you can do an extended rate lock, and, and we, we disclose that to our clients, those options as well.

Speaker 1: [7:12] So does that cost more for a new construction then?

Speaker 3: [7:14] It does. Yeah. Yeah. There's … Anything outside of six months, you're gonna pay a deposit, a non-refundable deposit, and you're gonna pay a higher discount point cost for that. So, or you can trust a professional like myself to manage that for you. And if, if I say, "Listen, I don't see rates staying the same or going down over the next six months. In fact, they're going up, and they're going up fast," that's when I may advise. But I can tell you in 12 years, I've maybe advised a 90-day plus rate lock maybe twice. Wow. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Okay. It pays to be able to work with someone that knows how the markets are moving and can watch those daily for those clients.

Speaker 2: [7:50] And just to be clear, the reason that you're pulling out, uh, new construction specifically is because of the timeframe, right? Correct. You're getting your offer accepted, and they're still potentially building this property. It might take- Yeah … six to nine- Correct … months until the, the, you're ready to move in. Correct. So-

Speaker 1: [8:04] Mm-hmm. Or even, yeah, six months, 12 months. I mean, it could be a while. Yeah. Especially if they're doing, like, a big plot of land, or they're building, you know, 50 to 100 homes. Yep. Yep. And you only want this one floor plan that you love, but they're not building that until they get to round two- Phase two. Yep … or whatever.

Speaker 3: [8:19] Yep.

Speaker 1: [8:20] So yeah, that's pretty common for that.

Speaker 3: [8:21] Yeah.

Speaker 1: [8:22] Okay. Anything else you wanna say about rate locks?

Speaker 3: [8:24] No, that's good. Be informed. There's options. It's not one size fits all. And I just encourage you to … You get what you pay for with- Yeah … the big banks and credit unions. I mean, by default, 20 years ago, that's what we did. We went to the banks and the credit union, the banks- To get our auto loans and our credit cards, and then by default, "Hey, I need to get a mortgage. I might as well just talk to the teller." Um, there's a better, more efficient, cost-effective way of doing it in 2020, and it's working with a local mor- local mortgage professional.

Speaker 1: [8:52] I'm gonna give you a little soapbox time right now.

Speaker 3: [8:54] Okay.

Speaker 1: [8:54] Tell me about, and we hadn't talked about this already- Mm-hmm … but I know your opinion on this- Yeah … because we've talked a lot. What about with online lenders?

Speaker 3: [9:01] It's all about vol- if there's a discount by working with an online lender, it's because they're cutting out the middle layers, which is processing and disclosing and compliance departments, and they're having to do it all on their own, and then they're doing it in high levels of volume. Well, when there's… If you've seen this before in my office, when I'm understaffed- Mm-hmm … and when we have a lot of volume, the phone calls don't get returned as quickly. The text messages don't. So that's why I always try to be overstaffed- Yep … and always be able to handle the volume that we have, and you get what you pay for. And I know our clients here in Seattle, in a competitive market, my real estate agents that I work with, like you guys, that are, um, that are very successful and sell a lot of homes, you have standards- Yeah … w- that you want your clients, that you want for your clients and for your business.

Speaker 1: [9:46] Mm-hmm.

Speaker 3: [9:46] And you just don't see that with the, the online lenders because it is volume driven.

Speaker 1: [9:51] Cool. All right. Moving on to the second most popular question you get all the time. The difference between choosing a 13-year and a thir- Or 15-year. Sorry, not 13-year. Yeah.

Speaker 2: [10:02] A new

Speaker 1: [10:03] loan program. A new loan program that I just invented. Announcing today. Only available through me- Yeah. … a non-mortgage provider. Uh, 30-year fixed versus, uh, what'd I say? 15-year- 15 … versus 30. Why can't I say this? 15 verse 30-year fixed loan. Mm-hmm. Let's go over the difference there.

Speaker 3: [10:20] Yeah, so by the way, we can do a 13-year fixed. It's, it's… That's one of the perks, too, of working with, um, a, a, a mortgage professional. Yeah. You can set the amortization to any loan. So, um, but thanks for bringing that up. That's great. I's had no idea. Um-

Speaker 1: [10:36] Very popular 13-year loan … Speaker 3: f- there it is. So a 15-year fixed, right now, again, we're in a low interest rate environment, and so people are actually talking about 15-year mortgages a lot here in Seattle, which they haven't in the past because our home values are so expensive here. Yeah. If you talk to and listen to financial planners like Dave Ramsey, he encourages you to put 20% down and use a 15-year mortgage. Eh, in Indiana, sure. Yeah, yeah. You know, those $70,000 purchase price or $100,000 purchase price. In Seattle, it's a little bit more difficult. So- A lot a bit more difficult.

Speaker 3: [11:09] A lot, yeah. One of the things that I always ask my clients to consider, and I use software called Mortgage Coach- Yep … and I produce a total cost analysis for every single one of my clients. And I do this because it will show you the, both the short-term and the long-term risks and benefits of a 30 versus a 15. Mm-hmm. One of the things that I like to see with all my clients, and the difference between working with me and maybe someone at a bank or a credit union, is I'm gonna look at your situation.

Speaker 1: [11:37] Yeah. And you understand their situation.

Speaker 3: [11:39] Their financial. You have the

Speaker 1: [11:40] time to understand that. Yeah.

Speaker 3: [11:41] And I can see if you're putting money into your 401every month or not. Mm-hmm. And so if you are putting money into your 401every single month, and if you are investing in the stock market, then a 15-year, if you can afford it, is a good option. But what I don't like to see is people go right to a 15-year before they're debt-free, before they're contributing to their 401, before they're investing in the stock market. So it's kind of a, if you're not, get yourself a really good 30-year fixed rate loan.

Speaker 1: [12:07] Mm-hmm.

Speaker 3: [12:08] And if you'd like, you can treat that like a 15-year- Exactly … and receive similar benefits.

Speaker 1: [12:13] So let's, l- let's break it down real quick, um, 'cause I know this is kinda the thought process I've heard people explain or think they understood. So the difference between a 30- and a 15-year, does… Since you're cutting the term- Mm-hmm … of the loan in half- Mm-hmm … does that mean that your monthly payment doubles?

Speaker 3: [12:31] Pretty much, mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, pretty much. So you're, you're, you're, instead of a $3,000 a month payment, you're gonna be right around six, maybe even a little bit more depending on property taxes, HOA dues, and all that good stuff, so.

Speaker 1: [12:44] Okay. Um, next question. interest rates. Mm-hmm. Are interest rates higher or lower on a 15-year versus 30?

Speaker 3: [12:51] Another great question. They're lower, and they're typically about .75% to 1% lower.

Speaker 2: [12:59] Interesting. Yeah. Why are they lower?

Speaker 3: [13:02] Yeah, good question. Amateurization, maybe enticement to, to shorten the term. Um, it makes, it makes a lot more sense if they were lower. Um, but that, you know what? I've never been asked that question and I'm on the spot. Probably-

Speaker 1: [13:15] Less risky maybe?

Speaker 3: [13:16] Yeah. It's, it's less risky.

Speaker 1: [13:18] Frees up the money sooner for the bank and-

Speaker 3: [13:20] Yeah. I, I just think it's an enticement. Yeah. Yeah. It's, one, it's an enticement to lower the term, and two, you're, you're lowering the term so the payment is so much more, you wouldn't have people signing up for 15 years if there wasn't a net tangible financial benefit, so that's probably why they're… Um, but I think it's, it's, uh, it's, it's really important to understand the true differences between a 15 and a 30, and that's where that software I was telling you about- Yeah … it just puts it right in front of you for you to make that choice. Yeah.

Speaker 1: [13:49] Your total overall-

Speaker 3: [13:51] Yeah … Speaker: what you would pay on the loan and…

Speaker 2: [13:53] Yeah. That is such- Yeah … a valuable part. Uh, w- our clients that work with you and they have access to that platform- Yeah … it is so helpful- Yeah … ful- helpful for them. They see every fee. Yeah. It's-

Speaker 1: [14:04] Yeah.

Speaker 2: [14:04] I never get a call, um, with my clients who work with you about, like, a surprise fee or a surpi- Yeah. Never a surprise at the end of the day. Yeah. And with other lenders it's almost an ex- an assumption- Yeah … an expectation- Yeah … and I have to set the ex- you know, like, there's gonna be some weirdness very likely, like, come- Yeah … closer to close and, yeah, it makes such a difference.

Speaker 1: [14:23] Yeah. That's a good point. I haven't thought about that, but that is so true, Jason. Yeah. Like, in the seven, eight, nine years, however long you and I- Yeah … have been working closely together, I've never had someone- Yeah … say Like the fees and everything- Yeah … were way higher.

Speaker 3: [14:36] Why'd they change? Yeah. We weren't expecting this. I mean, that's- Yeah … we talk about this all the time in our home buyer class, is that transparency is so big. Mm-hmm. And with that software, it's all right there. Before you even apply for a mortgage, you know what you're gonna get. Exactly. So yeah.

Speaker 1: [14:50] Exactly. All right, let's move on to the third and final- Mm-hmm … question that we get the most often. Mm-hmm. That is getting pre-approved versus getting pre-underwritten. What does that mean? What are the benefits of, of that, I guess?

Speaker 3: [15:03] Yeah. I mean, that's a great question. It's probably the number-one aha- Mm-hmm … that our home buyer class attendees take away from the class. They're like, "Oh my gosh, I never knew you could do this." And they see the value in, in how- Exactly … we present it.

Speaker 1: [15:14] Yeah.

Speaker 3: [15:15] So a typical pre-approval, you're going to, in today's day and age, you're going to fill out an online form at the m- mortgage company or the bank or the credit union, and based on what you put into that, the algorithm, the computer software, is gonna produce a pre-approval or a pre-qual, okay? It's gonna pull your credit, and it's gonna tell you based on, you know, different ranges that you qualify or you don't based on your credit score. The reason why pre-approvals and the reason why there's a 68% failure rate in regards to home loans going from pre-approval to closing, they either fail or they delay at closing. We talk about this in our classes.

Speaker 1: [15:54] Yeah, 68% of the time that happens.

Speaker 3: [15:56] Yeah, and if you round- It's crazy … up, that's like seven out of 10 buyers in the marketplace either experience delays a- at their close- at the closing table- Mm-hmm or don't close at all, and it's because of the pre-approval process and the people that are managing that. And so when I say they're the people that are managing it, oftentimes it's the consumer. So, "Oh, hey, my tax return said that I made $243,000 last year, so 243 divided by 12. When the application form online says how much do you make monthly, this is what I make monthly." Cool. You have a 728 credit score. You make this much. How much money do you… What is your net worth? Um, $135,000. Congratulations. You're pre-approved for 1.2 million with 10% down. Yay.

Speaker 1: [16:42] Which is always the number for some real weird reason. Like, seriously, it's always 1.2. It's crazy,

Speaker 3: [16:47] right?

Speaker 1: [16:47] Yeah.

Speaker 3: [16:48] And then they come to a home buyer class. Yeah. And you guys introduce them to someone like me and the software that we're talking about, and then we sit down and we do a mortgage planning meeting or a strategy session, and I ask them some questions about what, um, what would you like to budget for a monthly payment? How much money do you have that you're willing to separate ties with- Yeah to put down on a home and pay for closing costs? And when we ask those two simple questions, I can plug that into that formula, then give them budgeting information to their liking, to their desires, which is typically around 700,000 compared to the 1.2. Yep. So that just shows you the gap, how far off- Yeah these online forms are. That's one of the problems with that. The second is those online pre-approval forms that banks, credit unions, and other mortgage people use is subject to the information that you put in.

Speaker 1: [17:38] Yep.

Speaker 3: [17:39] So if you don't have your income and your

Speaker 1: [17:41] assets- If you put in something wrong or, not on purpose- Yeah but you just don't really know how to calculate- Yep … how much you actually make and-

Speaker 2: [17:47] Yeah, you might be including, like, RSUs- There you go … from Amazon. Yep. We get that a lot.

Speaker 3: [17:52] Yep.

Speaker 2: [17:52] And- Overtime … lenders are gonna see that differently.

Speaker 3: [17:54] Yeah, yeah. Um- borrowers that work a fair amount of overtime. Mm-hmm. There's not a two-year history. Borrowers, like you mentioned Amazon or, you know, other employers that earn bonus- employees that earn bonuses, you have to have a two-year history to use those. Yeah. And so if you don't, we factor out bonuses, and if you're making 70, 80 grand a year in bonuses, we can't use that. Now we're going off of your base. That impacts your approval amount a lot. So the difference between a pre-approval and pre-underwritten is we underwrite income, credit, and assets upfront.

Speaker 1: [18:28] Yeah.

Speaker 3: [18:29] Just like- Huge … when you would apply at a big bank or credit union and you just would fill out a form, then you'd wait a week for someone to get back to you. Mm-hmm. We actually reach out to you first, tell you to fill out this form, and then within 24 hours we review that, and then we take it one step further and we push it in front of an underwriter who's in-house with us- Mm-hmm … and have them credit, income, asset, um, income, asset, and, um, credit underwrite, and within 24 to 48 hours we kick that back out, and that's a guarantee that your loan will close on time and then a guarantee that you're approved versus speculating.

Speaker 2: [19:01] So the underwriter at each bank, they're like kind of the gateke- gatekeepers, right? They are the ones that at the end of the day say yay or nay, every, th- we accept this income, we don't accept that, we'll approve this loan, we like this appraisal, that sort of thing. Um, and so people get really confused, like, why don't all banks do this then if it's, you're speaking and it seems so easy.

Speaker 3: [19:24] Yeah.

Speaker 2: [19:24] Why is this just not an industry standard?

Speaker 3: [19:26] Yeah. From an, a operations employee standpoint, underwriters make the most amount of money. Yeah. So they are also in charge of, uh, risk prevention as well. Mm-hmm. So they report to o- they, they're employees of the lending institution, but they also underwrite to agency guidelines, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Ginnie Mae, or if it's jumbo, portfolio lines. So their name is attached to these loans. So if this loan doesn't perform and the borrower defaults down the road, the first, what they do in the audit is they go back and they review the underwriting findings. And, you know, if an underwriter's got loans that are defaulting, they're probably not gonna have a job. Yeah. You know, and they make g- good money. So there is a fee or an employee cost to underwrite a loan. That's why the big banks and credit unions don't do that. On the flip- flip side, 7 out of 10, 68% of loans close late or don't close at all. You guys know that that's not our percentages in our office. Uh,

Speaker 1: [20:24] nope.

Speaker 3: [20:24] Yeah. Not at all. So we have nearly 100% pull-through rate. Mm. So I can afford to have an underwriter underwrite the loan up front, because CrossCountry Mortgage knows is, we're gonna close on that loan. Whether it be 30 days from now or a year from now, we're gonna close on that. So it's a cost that no matter what you're going to pay, we just, we cover it up front.

Speaker 2: [20:43] This is really random, and I don't wanna go too far down here, but I love adding the history here. So underwriting- Mm … began in, like, the 1600s. I just love this. For, like, ships, when, you know, they would have tons of gold and very expensive spices and stuff on these ships, and the underwriter would basically underwrite each asset that was in the ship, saying, you know, "Five rupees worth of- Yeah or rupals worth of s- chai spice, and this much gold." And they would underwrite it. It was started by Lloyd's of London. Mm. And, uh, and then if the ship, uh, sank or there was pirates, or they, they arrived and they didn't have it, what they, what was on the underwriting manifest, the man- the underwriter was, it was their insurance policy. They were- Mm … responsible. So anyways.

Speaker 1: [21:28] So would they

Speaker 2: [21:29] actually

Speaker 1: [21:29] write underneath, like, the-

Speaker 2: [21:31] They would, like- … crate or whatever … write their name, I- I believe, underneath each, like, asset- Oh … basically on the thing. Yeah. Hence underwriter. On the manifest. Yep.

Speaker 3: [21:38] Well,

Speaker 1: [21:38] that's cool.

Speaker 3: [21:39] I did not know. But it makes sense. Yeah. And, and then you fast-forward however many years later, that's why they call… Insurance has it. Mm. Life insurance has it. We have it in mortgage. So yeah.

Speaker 1: [21:49] So in terms of, speaking of time- Mm-hmm … um, in terms of length, how long does a pre-underwrite last- Yep … versus a pre-approval?

Speaker 3: [21:59] Yep, another really popular question. So your, a credit report in the mortgage world is good for 120 days. Okay. So it's good for 120 days. What we like to do, we're in constant communication with our clients. And so if you have a client that's out shopping for a home outside of 60 days, we're checking in. "How is everything going?" And when we, we have an alert in our system. When you reach day 100, we just ask you to turn in updated pay stubs and bank statements, and we just reinstate it.

Speaker 1: [22:27] That easy.

Speaker 2: [22:27] Mm-hmm. Dan, that was so helpful. Yeah. S- This- You shared so much good knowledge.

Speaker 1: [22:31] Threw it at us. So succinctly. Yep. And, like, simple English, plain English. Yeah. So thank you very much for your time. I appreciate it. If anyone wants to reach out to you, what's the best way?

Speaker 3: [22:41] Yeah, I mean, I, I produce pretty decent, informative, educational content on Instagram. So Dan Keller, M as in Mary, T as in Tom, G as in George, DanKellerMTG- Mm-hmm … on Instagram or Facebook. Um, and there you can- I put my cell phone out there all over the place. Yeah. So you can reach out to me, um, via text or via social.

Speaker 1: [23:04] Cool. Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Dan. I really appreciate your time and all of the knowledge you just shared with us. I think this is gonna be a very helpful episode for a lot of people.

Speaker 2: [23:13] Definitely. Thank

Speaker 1: [23:14] you so much. If, uh, if you like this and if you got something out of it, please subscribe. Let the algorithms of the podcast platforms know you like us. Um, and you can always follow us on Instagram as well, @awesomeandawesome. Thank you for listening to the Awesome in Seattle podcast