Win Them Over- How to Convince Your Partner to Invest in Real Estate

Christian: [0:02] Hello, hello, and welcome to another episode of the Awesome in Seattle podcast. This is your host, Christian Nossum with the Awesome Nossum Group at Wilson Realty Exchange, Inc, and I'm here today with my wonderful cohost, my beautiful wife, Shannon Nossum.

Shannon: [0:15] Hello. I am so excited for this podcast today.

Christian: [0:19] Yes. This podcast topic is one that we have been asked to talk on and speak on numerous times, at least once. I've- Okay, no, I'm joking … like

Shannon: [0:30] at least 10 times.

Christian: [0:31] Uh, n- probably more than that, but it is basically how to get your partner on board with your desire to invest in real estate. I was the one that was always on board because I was in real estate. She was the attorney, not on board, in child-taking care of-

Shannon: [0:52] Risk-averse-

Christian: [0:52] Yes

Shannon: [0:52] not

Christian: [0:53] on board Very, very risk-averse. And this is a story of how I got her on board, and also how if your spouse or partner is maybe a little bit reluctant, some ways that you can help them understand the positives of doing this, and maybe give you some tips on how you might be able to convert your partner to join the dark side of real estate investing.

Shannon: [1:16] Yep. So today we're first gonna talk about what does that mean, invol- what does it, get involved in real estate mean? Mm-hmm. 'Cause I think that's different things for different people.

Christian: [1:24] Totally.

Shannon: [1:25] We're gonna share our story of kinda how Christian converted me over to the dark side. And then we are gonna go over some methods that I think worked for us in getting on the same page.

Christian: [1:36] So why don't you explain our backstory? What happened before? Where were we that, that, you know, I was an agent for- Yeah … you know, forever, since 2005, and bought my first house in 2005, and it was a house hack. I lived in a duplex. She lived there with me, actually. And then we bought another one, and then we bought another one, and slowly I started to convert her, but even after owning three properties she still was not on board with the investing train.

Shannon: [2:09] Yeah, so we, I was okay with long-term rentals. Mm-hmm. Yes. That's the thing that maybe is different about me than the, the typical, um, reluctant spouse. I was okay with that. I had some rentals in my family, so it's kinda just something I'd always known was- Yeah, your grandparents had

Christian: [2:24] rentals, so you knew it was kind of a

Shannon: [2:25] thing. I knew it was a thing. I knew, I knew why that was beneficial, but that's the only thing of real estate I was okay with. But Christian definitely wanted always, from day one, he wanted me involved. Let's talk about what does involved mean first. Yeah. I wanna define that a little bit. So I hear people all the time say, "Oh, I just gotta get my partner involved in this." Mm-hmm. "I just want my partner on board. I want them involved." I think for some people what that means is they want their partner to allow them or be okay with them- Mm-hmm … doing any kind of investing. 'Cause really, these are decisions you do have to make with your partner. Totally. If you're gonna do real estate investing, there are some risks to that. It's a time commitment. And there are some partners who are like, "No, you're not doing that. Like, you're not buying a rental. You're not flipping a house. You're not doing that." Um, so I think sometimes what people mean is they want their partner to be okay with them doing it.

Christian: [3:14] To be accepting of them- Correct 'cause they're gonna do it regardless.

Shannon: [3:17] Yep. Well, maybe not.

Christian: [3:19] Well, maybe not. Yeah.

Shannon: [3:19] Maybe not. And so they want their partner to, to say, like, "Okay, I'm in for you to, to, to do that." And then I think there's other people, um, and this is maybe part of where Christian was at too, that want their partner working with them- Mm-hmm side by side as investors daily, or even just working on the business to any extent so that they understand what's happening in the real estate business that they're already doing. So I know there's a lot of partners where one is doing active investing and the other is not, and maybe the one who's active wants the partner to join them. So-

Christian: [3:53] Yes … this podcast- I definitely wanted you side by side. Side by side.

Shannon: [3:57] And here we are. Um, I think this podcast is really for any of those. It, it works for any of that. Yeah. Whether your partner's reluctant to support you doing real estate at all, or whether you're doing it alone and you want them to be a little bit of a part of it, or you're doing it somewhat and they're kinda helping you, but you want them to help you more. So I think it works in any of those scenarios. So Shananan- So I wanted to start with

Christian: [4:17] that … what are some of the ways that I helped convert you, and some others maybe can help convert their partner, to join the dark side of real estate investing?

Shannon: [4:27] Yeah, so I think our story, like I said, we had some rentals, but I was really hesitant-

Christian: [4:33] Mm-hmm

Shannon: [4:33] to do any active investing. I, I was an attorney- And what

Christian: [4:37] that means is she didn't wanna do flips or-

Shannon: [4:40] Development … Speaker: development deals or- BRRRRs … anything like that. Anything really like that.

Christian: [4:45] She just wanted to do 20% down- Buy and hold … long-term-

Shannon: [4:48] Mm-hmm … Speaker: investment. That's it. And even that sometimes I was a little hesitant about. Yes. That is definitely true. I was like, "Well, if we have this money, like, I don't know if I wanna buy another rental with it." I mean, there was a little bit of hesitation in that- Mm-hmm … but not as much as the others. And I think for me, part of that came from just being risk-averse in general. And I was an attorney, so I s- always saw things going wrong, 'cause nothing comes to an attorney's desk unless there's a problem generally. Nobody's like, "We're having a great time. Come to help us." Um- "Let me pay you a bunch

Christian: [5:15] of money to look at how good of a time we're having,"

Shannon: [5:17] right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So usually things go, are going very bad when I would see it, and so I was generally just in- a risk-averse person. But I think for me, I was scared. It's a fear. It was a fear thing. Mm-hmm. And not just on the investment side, but on, like, can we do it? Do we have the skill set to do it?

Christian: [5:36] Do we have the knowledge?

Shannon: [5:37] Do we have the knowledge to do it? Do we have the time to do it? I remember most of this was happening in the era where, era where we had babies, like little-

Christian: [5:45] Mm-hmm

Shannon: [5:46] little kids too. So I feel like the time was a big concern of mine. Mm-hmm. And, um- Understandably … and the risk felt- Yeah … really big financially, the risk of, of any of those activities. So the way Christian converted me- Was one, it took a long time. I just wanna start with that. This is a 10-year process This was a, this was a slow drip. This is very

Christian: [6:07] slow. This is a, a seed I have been sowing for many years.

Shannon: [6:11] I, I think part of it was just showing me the benefits-

Christian: [6:16] Mm-hmm … Shannon: of what it could be, and I did understand those eventually, and understand what it could do for us and our family. But even with that, I was still scared, and I d- d- the reason that I changed my mind, the reason that I s- was okay with doing active investing where we are now, where we're flipping houses, doing data is- This was, this is the key that finally converted her, everyone

Shannon: [6:37] This is the final piece. Well, I had to get education first. I had to understand everything first. But this is- Which we'll go over that

Christian: [6:42] in a minute, but-

Shannon: [6:43] This is the key, is that I realized that the life that we wanted, we weren't gonna get unless we did something different.

Christian: [6:50] Mm-hmm.

Shannon: [6:51] And that felt like more of a risk to stay in the same spot.

Christian: [6:53] That was scarier.

Shannon: [6:55] That was scarier than taking the risk to do the active investing-

Christian: [6:58] Mm-hmm … Shannon: for me. Exactly. So- Yeah … the fear of not getting to where we both wanted to go for our family was stronger. By following the path that we were going on, we could see, she could see that there was no way we would get there doing the same thing we're doing.

Shannon: [7:13] Yeah, and no way we could get… We wanted more rentals, right? We wanted a certain- Mm-hmm … passive income number. When we looked at that, and we're in Seattle, it's expensive. So it would take us, you know, $200,000 to buy another rental, and that's a lot of money to save, and I realized, "Oh, my gosh. Well, we're never gonna be able to buy very many of these if we just save up- Mm-hmm and then, and then buy one, and then save up for another seven years, and buy another one." Like-

Christian: [7:40] It was too slow … Shannon: it was way too slow, and we were never gonna get anywhere. And so the combination of exposure, understanding the mindset, understanding, feeling comfortable with investing and understanding that you can mitigate risk- Mm-hmm

Shannon: [7:54] Then finally the decision of, okay, we're never gonna get where we wanna go-

Christian: [7:59] Going down the same path if we don't

Shannon: [8:00] take this risk.

Christian: [8:01] Yep. So the fear of not getting there overcame the fear of doing it wrong or- Mm-hmm … or losing- Of failure … money or failure- Mm-hmm … of flipping or building DADUs or whatever.

Shannon: [8:11] Yeah. Do you have any more- What, this is interesting. So now getting- I don't know what Christian did. So if he- Do you have anything that I didn't share that you're like, "I intentionally-

Christian: [8:19] Oh, yeah

Shannon: [8:20] did these things"?

Christian: [8:21] I would always talk about it, first off.

Shannon: [8:23] Well, yeah.

Christian: [8:23] So I never didn't talk. I was always talking about it, always getting you involved at least a little, getting your opinion all the time, bringing stuff up, running stuff by you, just trying to get you incorporated, and understand what was happening and what we wanted to do and how we wanted to get there, and painting that picture, helping you paint the picture of where are we gonna be- Mm-hmm in 10, 20, 30 years? Where do we wanna be, and where are we now? And the path we're going on clearly ain't gonna work, so we gotta do something else. Here is the path that we could do, or we could go down, to get to where we want to be. So it was showing you that, and then bringing you into my world of real estate investing. And-

Shannon: [9:10] I gotta say, Christian is really good at planting seeds. This is what makes him a really, really good negotiator on the agent side, is he, he thinks way, way, way ahead. When he's talking to somebody the first time, he'll, he'll get off the phone and he'll be like, "Oh, did you notice how I said this? That's because in two weeks, then this inspection period's gonna happen, and then I wanna say this." I'm like, "Oh my gosh." So he did this, a long game of 10 years- Yes,

Christian: [9:32] very long game. … Shannon: dropping seeds, trying to get me here. It did- Yes … succeed. Here I am. Definitely did succeed. And if anyone that's met you in the last two years, they never would have- No … guessed that you were so against doing everything we're doing right now.

Shannon: [9:45] When I said, "Hey, we're gonna do this podcast," people are like, "Yes, that's what I wanna hear about." And they're like, "Who was the one that didn't wanna do it? It was Christian, right?" I'm like, "No, it was me." And they're like, "What?"

Christian: [9:53] Yeah. " Shannon: You? You're like the DADU Queen." Yeah. "No way. You weren't the one who was- Yeah

Shannon: [9:58] all about doing this." So-

Christian: [9:59] So a lot of the things that I did, some of the tips and tricks, the seeds that I planted, wa- were-

Shannon: [10:04] Yeah … Speaker: like the first, if you've ever listened to any real estate podcast, and if they ever ask, which they often do, "What were your top three books that helped change your mindset?" I started listening to those and making her listen to these in long car rides. Yeah, so- Her family lives a couple hours away, and so when we'd go on these drives, we'd have the kids do whatever they're doing in the backseat, listening to their own podcast or audiobook or whatever. We would be listening to an adult one in the front. Um, sometimes I'd have it play over the whole entire car and force the kids to listen to it, so like Rich Dad Poor Dad, for instance. I knew she was never gonna pick up that book, ever. I was not. But- I was not going to … Speaker: you hearing it- Once, and then I got the Rich Dad Poor Dad for Kids, and having them, the kids get on board, and them get excited about that process, and I also incorporated the kids in all of this, um, which we can talk about maybe. Maybe we won't. I don't know, but- Yeah, so I was gonna say, the first tip we have about how to kinda get your partner on board is we call exposure therapy.

Christian: [11:08] Yes.

Shannon: [11:09] Right? So we're exposing… Well, he was exposing me to these ideas and concepts that I wouldn't be exposed to otherwise. So being trapped in a car ride and listening to things. Rich Dad Poor Dad's a great first book- There's a reason- … just to change your mindset. There's a reason that book's so famous. Yes. It, it, because it opens your eyes And why everyone

Christian: [11:30] says, "That was the first book that brought me into-" Yeah … wanting to do real estate investing."

Shannon: [11:34] So I f- feel like that was a great one to kinda get- Yep me going, "Okay, this is what I have, the mindset I have, I've grown up with or I think-" Mm-hmm … and now this is the kind of other way it could be."

Christian: [11:44] S- s- see the light a little bit.

Shannon: [11:45] Yeah. And then another thing you could do is have other exposures to real estate by s- there's a lot of people who love watching rehab shows. Mm-hmm. Tr- like those trashy real estate agent shows. Mm-hmm. But those are exposing you to- Yes … the real estate game. Little by little.

Christian: [12:01] Yep.

Shannon: [12:01] And so there's a lot of people who probably would watch those. If you can drag your partner to a meetup-

Christian: [12:08] Mm-hmm … Shannon: take 'em with you. Yeah. Who came to come and come. Convince ' Shannon: em by saying, "Hey, we'll go out to your favorite dessert place after," or go out to dinner before, or make it a date kinda thing. Whatever you gotta do to get 'em to go. Another one is something like BP CON or some, some convention that's out of town, just the two of you can go. Leave the kids at home, make it special. And this is one that i- is surrounding yourself with other like-minded people that you want your, your spouse or your partner to, to see is successful. So I wanted her to see that there are other couples that work together and are successful and still like each other, and actually probably have a stronger bond and a stronger relationship because they work together. And so I would bring her along to all these meetups and conventions and-

Shannon: [13:02] Sometimes begrudgingly.

Christian: [13:04] Yes. Usually. At least at the beginning.

Shannon: [13:06] Yeah.

Christian: [13:07] But you got a free trip, free trip. We got a tax write-off trip out of it, which is- Yeah … always possible or fun.

Shannon: [13:13] Yeah.

Christian: [13:13] But she would see that there's other couples that are successfully working together, and she would see, and I got… I would ask questions, and then she would go, "Oh, that's interesting," and then she would start to ask questions of them as well. Um-

Shannon: [13:27] Yeah, I was gonna say, that would be kind of our second tip, is to surround your partner with people who are doing what you wanna do.

Christian: [13:34] Mm-hmm.

Shannon: [13:35] That's a really, really important one, because you are, as we all know, the average of the, what, are five people you spend the most time with?

Christian: [13:42] Exactly.

Shannon: [13:42] And so- I think a lot of this job or this world of real estate investing feels crazy to everyone else.

Christian: [13:51] Oh.

Shannon: [13:51] They'll be like, "What are you

Christian: [13:52] doing? Are you insane?" Anyone that is not in real estate that looks at us, they think we're insane, and rightfully so- Absolutely … 'cause from their worldview, we are insane.

Shannon: [14:01] Yeah.

Christian: [14:01] But from our worldview-

Shannon: [14:03] This is normal … Speaker: we're also insane, but we In different ways.

Christian: [14:07] But in a different way. Yeah. And I think this is what works for us, and it is successful for us, and it's fun for us. Yeah. That's the other thing.

Shannon: [14:15] But I think people, you know, you grow up with a certain mentality, right? That, you know, you work your 9:00 to 5:00- Mm-hmm … and then you save your money, and you have your retirement, and I think it's, you know, that's the path that most people are on. So if all of your friends are on that kind of path, then this path of real estate investing is gonna sound and seem absolutely crazy.

Christian: [14:35] Yes.

Shannon: [14:36] It's gonna seem far-fetched. It's gonna seem risky. It's gonna seem- Bananas. Mm-hmm. So if you surround your partner with people who are active investors, who are doing this, who are in the day-to-day, they're naturally gonna hear conversations at dinners, at parties, at whatever- Mm-hmm … that are normalizing this type of lifestyle. And so when you say to your partner, "Hey, we should buy an Airbnb," they're gonna be like, not, "Oh, you're crazy," because they just heard Samantha last week talk about how she just made, you know, $12,000 last month on her Airbnb. Mm-hmm. It's gonna sound more normal, more feasible. There's a thing in, like, manif- I'm not a big manifestor, but I have heard some of these podcasts that say you can't manifest something that's not within your, like, realm of reaching for it, or within-

Christian: [15:22] What you believe- a step- … is real.

Shannon: [15:24] Yeah, or, like, if you don't have an example of someone that's- Mm-hmm … he- like, here, where you can kind of see, like, oh, I know that person got there, and then, then that person went here. So you kind of have to have these examples. And so if you kind of make it normal and make it seem like this is a reasonable thing to do, that can really help.

Christian: [15:42] Yeah, and I think- Um- … that brings us to step, or part three, i- which is proof is in the pudding. So if you are showing your partner the proof, not just, maybe not at first of you actually doing it, but your friends and the people that, that your partner trusts and believes, and you're seeing they just got a big, giant wire into their account 'cause they're talking about it, 'cause they share it on social media, or you talk about it at a meetup that they went to, or you're friends with them and you go out to dinner or whatever, and they're like, "Yeah, we just made 200 grand off of this flip that we did, and it took us 12 weeks," and you're like, "Holy cow, that's insane. Never made $200,000 in 12 weeks before. I didn't know- Yeah … that was possible," and now you're lighting up that light bulb in their head that that is possible. It's reachable. That is reachable. Achievable. You can do it. You're just as smart as your friends are- Mm-hmm … that just did that. You can do this, too.

Shannon: [16:37] I also think the proof is in the pudding for some people in that you have to… There are some people who will not be convinced until their partner, like, if they go off and do a, a deal, until they see that number in their own bank account- Yep … they're not gonna be all in on it. There are some people that just have to see that check of their own or their own bank account to finally have that buy-in, like, oh. Oh, wow, okay, this is actually real. Like, look w- the money you just made from doing this. And that's sometimes what it takes.

Christian: [17:06] Mm-hmm, yeah. I'd say tip number four is to find out your partner's strengths- And have them help you based off their strengths. So if there's something that Shannon really liked to do which was more on the design scale I would get her input on stuff like that. When we have to redo one of our long-term rentals, we gotta put new paint, maybe the kitchen's so old and we, we wanna redo it I would rope her into that process so that she would understand and get some input, and she likes that stuff. I don't really care for it. I'm like, I'm fine at it, but I'm not good at it. I don't really enjoy it. I know she enjoys it. She finds it fun. She's actually really good at it So I would get her involved, 'cause that's s- that's something that she already likes to do. I would never, ever have her do some spreadsheet stuff and try to c- Not what

Shannon: [17:58] I like … Speaker: try to convince her to find out the cash on cash return of this potential deal- Well,

Christian: [18:05] I can do that now- You can do it but I wouldn't have done

Shannon: [18:06] it then.

Christian: [18:07] But you never would have done that before.

Shannon: [18:08] Yeah.

Christian: [18:09] And this is all stuff y- you have learned and you actually enjoy to do, or enjoy doing now a little.

Shannon: [18:13] Mm-hmm.

Christian: [18:14] Because you see the- Yeah … profit of it, and it's like, ooh, that's exciting.

Shannon: [18:18] Yeah.

Christian: [18:18] But back then, numbers were not your thing.

Shannon: [18:20] Well, yeah, that's, that's the point, is like he drew me in by giving me small tasks d- of things that I liked.

Christian: [18:27] Mm-hmm.

Shannon: [18:27] And they weren't big, they were just small. Mm-hmm. And he knew I would like them. Mm-hmm. So then when I'm doing these little things that I enjoy, then it kind of built from there of me being open to doing bigger and bigger and bigger task, where now I have this whole nine-to-five- Mm-hmm plus job we're in here. Um, and I think that's the key. I, and I- I'm not gonna… Not to be like sexist or anything, but a lot of times the male is really interested in real estate investing, and the female is hesitant. That's just the pattern that I've seen.

Christian: [18:56] Yeah.

Shannon: [18:57] And again, oftentimes women are more interested in design than men. Mm-hmm. So this is a really good way to draw them in. Go to the tile store, go to the cabinet

Christian: [19:05] store-

Shannon: [19:05] Yes … Speaker: make a little date out of it.

Christian: [19:07] So I would, I would bring her with me to go pick out selections for stuff, and I'd be like, I would act like an idiot and go, "I don't know, what do you think," person helping us. And then, then she would go, "Wait, no, I like this," or, "I like that." Yeah. And it was all by design, and this is stuff that you can do as well. Bring them along with you. Yeah. Ha- have them help pick out the cabinets, the tile- Or- … the paint, whatever.

Shannon: [19:28] Or at the least have them go through Pinterest and do like a- Mm-hmm inspiration board, which is fun. They'll have fun doing that most likely. Mm-hmm. And so that can help them get interested in it, too. And seeing your creations come to life feels really exciting.

Christian: [19:43] Yes.

Shannon: [19:44] So that's- And- … sometimes a good way to

Christian: [19:46] help … that's how you can have that snowball into the next one, and they, that little tiny help where they pick the whatever and then they see it in real life, and then they see the paycheck of that after. And then you go, "Hey, we're gonna do this other one. What do you think? You wanna design the, the kitchen in this one? You wanna do the whole thing? Yeah? Cool. All right." And you just, it just snowballs, and if they're gonna do the kitchen, they're definitely gonna do the bathroom. Mm-hmm. If they're gonna do the bathroom, they're probably gonna wanna have the whole color scheme for the interior. And if they're gonna do that, maybe they also wanna do the exterior. And maybe at that point- … maybe they even wanna, you know, choose the color- I feel like this is- … of the new roof … give a mouse

Shannon: [20:22] a cookie right now.

Christian: [20:23] Exactly.

Shannon: [20:24] And then if they're gonna want this, they're gonna want that. Like, what-

Christian: [20:27] It's true though. Yeah. Like, it does snowball. It does. And that's the whole point of this, is you're just trying to ease them into it. Don't force-feed them, just ease them into it, um-

Shannon: [20:38] See if they like it … Speaker: and see if they like it. Yeah. The next thing, this is the biggest one, what we're about to say right now. This is, this is the thing that I think is the reason that most people are, are not having their partner on board, which is fear.

Christian: [20:52] Mm. Mm-hmm.

Shannon: [20:52] I think fighting their objections or figuring out what it is that's causing them to say no is super important. So for me, I had all these things in my head, um, which is for people who want to buy long-term rentals, I hear this a lot, this objection. "Well, I think people will wreck the house."

Christian: [21:11] Mm-hmm.

Shannon: [21:11] Right?

Christian: [21:11] They're totally gonna trash it. " Shannon: They're gonna trash the house, and that scares me. I don't want other people living in my house." Right? Mm-hmm. And that's a question I get from people. Like, "How can you handle this?" Well, they have a security deposit, and if something gets broken, I just use that and I fix the house. Yep.

Shannon: [21:24] So that's a clear way to, like, fight that objection, but usually people have a reason why they're saying no to this. Maybe they've seen a friend go through and try to invest and fail. Maybe they are, you know, very, very risk-averse. Maybe there's a lot of reasons why people might be concerned about going forward. My suggestion would be find out, like, have a conversation with your partner and just be really curious. What is it that's… Not, not in any harsh way, just- Mm-hmm … just wonder, be curious. Why do they have these feelings? Don't try to fight them in the moment, but just hear them out. Yeah, yeah. Then you need to know what those are. You need to know why they're being hesitant. And if it's a valid reason, that's totally fine, and you need to accept that. Mm-hmm. Right? But if it's things that you know that with more information could be something that you could clear up, then you know what you're, you're kind of working with. I think a lot of people are worried about house hacking. They don't want people living with them.

Christian: [22:21] Yeah, they don't wanna share a wall, and-

Shannon: [22:23] They don't wanna share a wall … Speaker: which is funny because they're probably already sharing a wall in an apartment building or something like that. So it's like, it's no different except you get to choose who your neighbor is. You get to be the one in charge of them saying, "Hey, you need to be quiet." You're the one that gets to put quiet hours in your lease. You're the one that gets to determine- Yeah, you're

Christian: [22:42] in control … do we need to put more insulation between the shared wall- Or like dead- … so that we don't have to hear alternating. Or dead air space- Mm-hmm … or yeah, alternating studs on both side. Like- Mm-hmm … you can actually have a lot of control in that.

Shannon: [22:54] Yeah, and I kind of feel like- Some fear is, is valid, but a lot of the fears people have about investing in real estate can be answered. There is a financial risk. There's no doubt to that. 100%, yeah. There absolutely is a financial risk, but-

Christian: [23:08] And there's also a financial risk to not doing it. Which is- yeah Which one is greater, and which one is scarier? Which one's more positive? Which one are you gonna lean towards?

Shannon: [23:16] Yeah, and just find proof and educate them on the things that they're concerned about, and with some more information they might feel more confident. Like, maybe show them your numbers on a deal and say, "Okay, so this is best case scenario. This is worst case scenario." Show them the comps. Mm-hmm. Let them see. Like, "Hey, do you see how everything in this neighborhood has sold for this much, and I underwrote it way under that? Like, do you see?" There's so much, you know-

Christian: [23:38] There's potential profit in this deal leeway in this deal. Even if we screw everything up, worst case scenario, we'll still make this much versus this much, whatever that amount is.

Shannon: [23:48] Mm-hmm. Um, the other thing I was gonna say is house hacking, I think a lot of people have this thought in their head that, "Oh, I don't wanna live with other people," but they don't think about the timeline of that. Yeah. That is not something you have to do forever. Mm-hmm. This could be something you do for one to two years, and then you have this rental property that you get to keep forever with owner financing. And so you need to show them, like, remind them- Owner occupied financing … owner occupied financing. Yeah. Remind them that this is not something you have to do forever. This is a sacrifice for a small period of time, and then we can move somewhere else and look at what else we could get. Look at the path that it could take us on.

Christian: [24:25] Mm-hmm. Speaking of path- One tip that we have recently heard from actually Rich Fettke, who talks about looking at and imagining your future self in 10 years. And imagine you're… And he goes through this whole scenario and in essence it's like imagine you're in a spaceship, and you go out, and then you come back, and it's 10 years later, and you're pulling up to your front door, and you knock on the door. Your future self 10 years in the future opens it and greets you, and you get to ask them some questions. "Wow, where are you living?"

Shannon: [24:59] Yeah. " Speaker: What does your life look like?" And you guys should go through this. Yes. This is, I think, something you get with- It's a good

Christian: [25:03] couples test.

Shannon: [25:03] Yeah. So you should listen to them do this. It's not really a meditation, but, um, walk you through this. Mm-hmm. And do this with your partner and see… Ask them afterwards, "What did you see?" Mm-hmm. "What were… What was your life like? What house were we living in?" This I think- Where are we

Christian: [25:19] living?

Shannon: [25:19] Yeah, can be a really powerful tool in that most people imagine themselves somewhere better than where they are now.

Christian: [25:25] Yes.

Shannon: [25:25] And so when they imagine that, you can say, "Okay, how are we gonna get there? I know a way. We can do this."

Christian: [25:32] Yeah, 'cause if we, again, go down the same path we're currently on, probably not gonna get there, or at least it's not in our control. 'Cause if you just have a W-2, that's not in your control. As much as you wanna believe it might be, it's not. You're at the whim of whatever your employer decides to do. If you get a raise or not, that's not in your control. If you get fired or not, that's not in your control. If they eliminate your department, not in your control. So if you can take more control of that and-

Shannon: [26:01] Make sure you get where you wanna go.

Christian: [26:02] Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. You can be in control of that. I'd say the, the, at the end of all of this, to wrap this up, unless you have more you wanna talk about.

Shannon: [26:11] No, I was just gonna say that obviously I eventually pivoted to being into this.

Christian: [26:17] Thank God.

Shannon: [26:19] There are some people who aren't going to.

Christian: [26:21] Yeah.

Shannon: [26:21] And you need to prioritize your relationship over- That's what

Christian: [26:24] I was just gonna say, too.

Shannon: [26:25] Yeah … yeah, over convincing them to be- Yes … involved in real estate. Your relationship's way more important than whether you invest in real estate or not.

Christian: [26:31] 100%.

Shannon: [26:32] And it needs to be the priority. And also, clearly my example, this was a 10-year process. Mm-hmm. This took a long time, so don't be upset or, when it just doesn't happen overnight. You have to have a lot of patience. It takes people time to realize these things.

Christian: [26:47] Mm-hmm.

Shannon: [26:47] But I think if you do surround them with other people, you give them some exposure to this, real estate is so powerful, and once you know about it, you can't un-know it. And- Exactly … hopefully they will get on board. They may not want to be there every day with you on site, or may- they may not like picking design. They may not want to be an active partner, but they might be a supportive partner.

Christian: [27:08] Mm-hmm, yep, and that is just as important.

Shannon: [27:11] Yep.

Christian: [27:11] As long as they support you in your crazy dream of flipping houses or building DADUs or getting long-term rentals or whatever it is-

Shannon: [27:19] Or building yurts or whatever it

Christian: [27:21] is- Yeah

Shannon: [27:21] that you like doing.

Christian: [27:22] Campgrounds, RV parks, mobile home park. Whatever it is, as long as they're on board and supportive, that is all that really matters at the end of the day. And it's, good luck. Uh, it can take a long time, but stick with it. It should and hopefully will pay off. And I can't say how m- thankful I am that you are my partner and that you are on board with it. You were always supportive regardless. You weren't always on board with doing what we're doing now.

Shannon: [27:50] Correct,

Christian: [27:51] yeah. And I am so thankful that you are my partner, so-

Shannon: [27:54] Thank you … I love you. Well, I'm thankful you convinced me, because what the heck would I be doing right now if I-

Christian: [27:59] I don't know … Shannon: I don't know. It'd be boring. So I'm really thankful that you stuck with it and continued to convince me- Mm … Shannon: that this is the path, 'cause clearly it is. Yeah. And I hope, yeah- I'd say one, one additional tip, too, is, and I think this could help push over, because a lotta times, I know with my kids, our kids, when we are- telling them something, giving them advice. They don't wanna hear it from us.

Shannon: [28:23] Yep. Yep.

Christian: [28:24] If an, if a friend's parent says the exact same thing, they hear it clear, and they listen, and they do it. So something that could potentially help is if you are, if you have a mentor and your mentor convinces your spouse or says the same thing you've probably been saying for years, and then they see it from this other person who's already successful and been there, done that, or may- whether it's someone that you just know or it's someone that you pay for their coaching or something like that, that might also do the trick to kind of put that final nail in the coffin to seal the deal. How many more things can I say that means the same thing? I was gonna say-

Shannon: [29:03] Because that's- … this is, I'm just gonna let you keep going. Do you have any more

Christian: [29:05] of those? Well, it's true, though. It's, it's true. Yeah. And I think that was a big part of it for us.

Shannon: [29:09] Which is why surrounding yourself with other people-

Christian: [29:11] Yes

Shannon: [29:11] is super important. But I think- 'Cause they're gonna hear it from others … Speaker: and my point was to just add on that they don't, it could be something, someone that you even pay for. Not that you're paying them off to, like, say it. That'd be a really interesting seed- … that I never thought about. Oh my gosh. Never paid someone to say this. Um, but the point is that it could come from m- someone that's- Mentor … that's a mentor that you're already paying for, or a coach or something. Yeah. So. That could also be a way to build a community for yourself of people-

Christian: [29:39] Mm-hmm … Shannon: that can, you can surround yourself with, so. Yep. Yeah, I just wanna say that I think I'm glad that I was converted over. And, uh, I hope that you guys have good luck with your spouses, but also, it's okay if they don't- Mm-hmm … Shannon: pivot. That's okay. It is.

Shannon: [29:56] Um, 'cause this isn't meant for everyone. No. This isn't a lifestyle that works for everyone, and in the end, if that's the case, that's okay. Hopefully, they let you do it, and they are a- Are supportive cheerleader, but they may not be 100% down for, for active investing daily.

Christian: [30:13] Yep.

Shannon: [30:13] So.

Christian: [30:13] And that's okay. Yeah. 'Cause relationship, that comes first. Yep. This is all just extra. So all right, well, that's it for this episode of the Awesome in Seattle podcast. You, today, got to see into the lives of Christian and Shannon Nossum. I hope you liked what you saw. It was kinda off the cuff, and we kinda had a general idea what we were gonna say, but I think, I think it really came across well, that at the end of the day, it's all about the relationship. Um, but there's lots of ways that you can help show your partner that this could be a way to that financial freedom that, at the end of the day, pretty much everybody wants that. You don't wanna have to work the rest of your life. That is not why we're here on this Earth. It's really to spend time with your family and your loved ones, and real estate's a great way, in our opinion, to get there. There's other ways, but for us, this is the way that works for us. So that's it for this episode. Shannon, thank you for joining me.

Shannon: [31:06] Thanks.

Christian: [31:07] And, uh, we'll see you next time on the Awesome in Seattle podcast.