Exploring The World Of Short - Term Rentals With Amanda McKane

Christian: [0:03] Hello, hello, and welcome to another episode of the Awesome in Seattle podcast. This is your host Christian Nossum, and today I am joined By two beautiful women. One of them is my wife, and I'm excited. Shannon Nossum is here as my co-host today.

Amanda: [0:17] Hello, hello.

Christian: [0:18] And we're here on my right with Amanda McKane.

Amanda: [0:21] Hi.

Christian: [0:22] Airbnb guru host extraordinaire. We're talking all about Airbnbs today. So this is gonna be a very, very exciting one, so let's just jump right into it. Okay. Amanda, thank you so much for joining.

Amanda: [0:33] Thanks for having me.

Christian: [0:34] Can you tell us a little bit about your short-term rental portfolio and what that looks like right now?

Amanda: [0:40] Yeah. Currently, today we have about seven short-term rentals. Nice. And, um, so it makes up a little bit less than half of our total portfolio. Mm-hmm. And they're kinda scattered everywhere between North Carolina, Virginia, Arizona, California, and in Washington. Wow. And soon to be two more here in Seattle.

Christian: [0:59] Dang.

Shannon: [1:00] Amazing.

Christian: [1:01] That's impressive. I'm

Shannon: [1:01] jealous.

Christian: [1:02] I know. I'm very

Shannon: [1:02] jealous.

Christian: [1:03] I know. So can you share your journey, your real estate investing journey, and, and really what drew you to the Airbnb space, the short-term space?

Amanda: [1:13] Yeah, so it's a little bit of a ski bum story. I lived in Lake Tahoe for about 10 years while I was going to college. Nice. Yes, yeah. Um, my husband lived in, went to school in Santa Cruz. Mm-hmm. So we were-

Christian: [1:24] Back and forth … Amanda: back and forth. And living in Lake Tahoe, there's a lot of vacation rentals. Yes. Yeah. Um, and so I was serving tables and going to school, and just thought, like, "You can own a house at the lake that makes you money. How do I do that?" Yeah.

Amanda: [1:37] And so with my husband graduating college and getting his degree, it made more sense for us to come to Seattle instead of San Francisco, which is another biotech hub, and we bought our first house hack in Seattle in 2016.

Christian: [1:49] Nice. Nice.

Amanda: [1:49] So we bought a house that had, um, an unfinished basement but about seven-foot ceilings- Hmm which I know y- the two of you can appreciate. Yes,

Christian: [1:57] yes. Yes. That's

Amanda: [1:57] a big deal. And, and so it was completely unfinished, and we took down our first project finishing half of the basement to make an in-law suite to rent out.

Christian: [2:04] Nice. Well done. What lessons did you kinda learn from that experience of taking an unfinished basement and finishing it off? I'm sure as your first one, that was probably very eye-opening. What were some of the bigger lessons you learned?

Amanda: [2:16] The money you save in DIY, you'll pay in couples therapy. So it was- Yeah … great. We obviously had to learn a lot about how to build in construction, and getting through it, and being cost-effective. But more importantly, when you're going to do an Airbnb space, noise-canceling things- Mm-hmm … and how you can remediate sounds perforating through both floors, guest access, and then guest expectations when you're living above them. Yeah. So a less than ideal first scenario for a vacation rental, but definitely gave us the opportunity to go out and do a few more because we had that house ha- cash flow opportunity.

Christian: [2:55] Mm-hmm. That's awesome.

Shannon: [2:56] I- I'm so excited to learn about this- … 'cause I've been wanting to do an Airbnb for a while. Mm. And so I'm thrilled to pick your brain, particularly on Seattle- Okay … 'cause that's where we are. Yeah. So I wanna know, what are the rules in Seattle?

Amanda: [3:08] So Seattle is obviously changed a lot. Since 2017, they instituted a new rule, so we have not had a live Airbnb since the new rules kind of took place. So we will be going online with two more units here in the next month, and with those new rules, you can have a primary residence with a short-term vacation rental permit and one other property in your name. Got it. So each person gets their primary plus one, so that way you don't have one person with eight to 10 units, and you're not over-saturating the market- Mm-hmm … and keeping affordable housing.

Christian: [3:44] And does that, like if it's a duplex, if the building has more than one unit, does that count as one- … or is that

Amanda: [3:49] two? So I was just looking into the code on this a little bit, because th- our situation is unique that we will have a duplex. So it could be considered, depending on how the city defines it, as an auxiliary unit or an ADU to the main property S- I'm hoping they're going to see it as an auxiliary unit, not requiring two permits. So we are about to embark on that journey and see how they're going to define it. Find out. Cross your fingers. We're gonna hopefully name it an auxiliary unit since it is a basement unit.

Christian: [4:19] Yeah.

Shannon: [4:20] Yeah. So in doing your research before you bought this most recent property, is Seattle a good market? What does the Seattle Airbnb market look like?

Amanda: [4:29] Seattle is a great market certain times of the year, and I think you see that in most vacation rental markets. So with that, we know we're gonna have a peak season, a shoulder season, and a really low season. I mean, I know you guys haven't noticed, but it rains here a bit.

Christian: [4:42] What? No. Yeah. Um. No

Amanda: [4:44] way. Seattle? So with that, we will probably do a blend of two different strategies with midterm rental and short-term rental. So when we're looking at the numbers, you can generally assume in peak season you'll make double to triple what you would on an average monthly rent rate.

Christian: [5:00] Wow.

Amanda: [5:00] And that will t- typically take you through the lower shoulder seasons if you're paying attention and you're not overspending in different categories. But for those low shoulder seasons, I like to pivot to a midterm rental if it makes sense. If we're still seeing that influx of bookings, I'll leave it as a short-term rental. But to your point, when I'm looking at the different data points for Seattle, we're looking at AirDNA, we're looking at Raboo, we're looking at Rank Breeze. Those are three of the tools that I kinda target to see- Mm-hmm. Okay … what's my occupancy rates gonna be? What are the nightly rates gonna be? What areas of Seattle do I need to be in? Where do people wanna be?

Shannon: [5:36] Where do they wanna be?

Amanda: [5:37] Well, they wanna be walkable, right? Okay. Some people now, it used to be s- Downtown Corridor, but walkability is a huge one. Do they wanna be on the water? Do they wanna be- Hmm … in a place that is close to public transportation? So I think that depends on the product that you have. Is it a condo? Is it an apartment? Is it a house? Like, what is- Mm-hmm … your group size with the product you have? That'll determine it as well. So for ours, we're, we have a rooftop deck, so we have a cool amenity in that way. We're close to Gas Works Park, so you get that walkability. You're still in a safe neighborhood. You still have parking. So s- those are some of the things you'll see. And there's an easier way to explore the market and what you're looking for using something called the Enemy Method- Hmm … where you're going to look at four to five listings that complement what you're gonna bring to the market, and what are they doing, how are they performing, what amenities do you have or do you need? And using a tool like Rank Breeze to plug in, you can kind of see what their 90-day trends are at, 60-day trends are at- Hmm … and their occupancy rates.

Shannon: [6:36] I've never heard of that. Yeah. I do not know. That's amazing. That, it's almost like comps- Yeah … in real estate- Yep … Amanda: but in the Airbnb space.

Amanda: [6:43] Yeah. It's really cool. When I started, that didn't exist. Like, you were literally going onto people's profiles and seeing how many guest feedbacks they'd gotten in a month to try and quantify how many bookings they had. Wow. And, like, when they slowed down.

Shannon: [6:54] Oh my gosh. Yeah. So technology's been a huge help. Absolutely. That's amazing. Um, okay, so it sounds like Seattle's a good- Your, I saw your Airbnb. I walked it when it was under construction. You guys, it's amazing. It's beautiful. Rooftop deck is killer. This is gonna be a really good one.

Christian: [7:08] If we need a, a parents' weekend away- … maybe we can just, maybe we can just use yours.

Shannon: [7:13] Here, just take it. Our,

Amanda: [7:14] mine, or- Yeah … you guys have that great rooming house. We could get that

Shannon: [7:16] college vibe. Oh, that is so fun. Yeah. Yeah. It's so quiet there. There's no dirty dishes. That's amazing.

Christian: [7:22] No,

Shannon: [7:22] no. Um, so one of the things we were talking about is what other things are nearby, 'cause o- As we like to hack our life, we have this house in Hawaii. We get to go visit it. Now Christian's like, "What about something that's- Mm … within driving distance of where we actually live- Yep. Yep … versus a, you know- For a vacation house- … fly on an

Christian: [7:39] airplane … that we can go to- Yep … and just like you, hack it-

Shannon: [7:41] Yeah.

Christian: [7:42] Yep … so that we can use it for free.

Shannon: [7:44] What are some areas, or do you know of any areas within, like, three hours of Seattle that are good Airbnb markets?

Amanda: [7:50] Yes. Mm. So I'm exploring these currently. So if you have a waterfront fixer that I could air- … brr, and brr, like I'm- Nice … and not an HOA- Yeah … let, tell Christian, let me know.

Shannon: [8:01] Yes,

Amanda: [8:01] please. But I think some really interesting markets, and we have one in one of them, in the Olympic National Park- Nice … Olympic Peninsula. Obviously, things that are close to waterfront, Suncadia- Mm-hmm … Leavenworth. The challenge right now, like San Juan Islands would've been a dream. Yeah. Their short-term rental permit moratorium just lifted, but now it's a waiting list. Mm. So many of these markets, I'm trying to think of the county in particular, the name of the county, but out near Lake Chelan.

Christian: [8:27] Mm-hmm.

Amanda: [8:27] Okay. A lot of these places have instituted very heavy permitting and regulations, and that's a great thing. We like to see that because you- Yep … at least you know you can play within the lines- Yep … and you just have to follow- Totally … X, Y, and Z. But typically, once they've reached their quota, they're gonna turn really, really slow, or some of them you have to own for at least a year. Mm. So it depends. Is it a fixer that you can take time to fix up and then get on that waiting list, or is it something where we're not seeing enough turns in the permitting office that we're likely not, we're gonna have to sit on this investment for three to five years- Oof … negative cash flow before we're in the lottery?

Shannon: [9:00] Wow. Yeah. Oh my gosh.

Amanda: [9:00] But I, I do think there's one particular place that I'm looking at- … that I think is-

Shannon: [9:06] She's like, "I'm not telling you." Sneaky.

Amanda: [9:07] Well, I don't know, because I feel like- Yeah, yeah … on any podcast you hear about real estate, one person says the market and 3,000 people- Yes, yeah … go to that market.

Christian: [9:15] Totally. No one listens to us. It's fine.

Amanda: [9:16] Okay. Well- … Camano Island, I love you. Let's, let's work together. Okay. I think Camano's super awesome- Okay … because you don't have to take a ferry to get there. Yeah. You're close. You can drive. But it's still, when you're on it, Iverson Beach- … feels like you're worlds away. Yeah. Yeah. You get sunlight. Mm. So that's a market that I would really love, similar to you guys- Yeah … to purchase a property that is- Mm … hopefully a fixer. I think they're calling it a STR. So that's what most of my products- A

Shannon: [9:44] STR, okay … Amanda: have been, is a short-term rental where you still rehab the product and then take your initial investment back out. So- Cool. Yeah. Okay. Olympic National Park has actually blown me away in its productivity. Mm. We book out, like, six months in advance, and- Wow … during peak season, see about, like, a 90% occupancy rate.

Christian: [10:03] Wow.

Shannon: [10:03] Oh my gosh.

Amanda: [10:04] It, it books out- Incredible … more than the Tahoe property. Like-

Christian: [10:07] Wow … Amanda: people plan it well in advance because it is a national park. Yeah. Lake Tahoe is a huge vacation destination, but I feel like these national park seekers are- Mm-hmm. Planners

Shannon: [10:16] And you know they're not gonna move. The national park's not going

Amanda: [10:19] to move. Right, right. But- So

Shannon: [10:20] you don't have those concerns … Amanda: there is a big vote happening where n- our property is. So all to say, they didn't have strict regulations in place. Mm. Mm. Now they're defining them, and we're on the cusp of will we be grandfathered in or will we not b- Mm … not be so. Oh, no.

Amanda: [10:33] What flexibility will we have and what will the numbers look like?

Christian: [10:36] Tough.

Shannon: [10:36] What will be your plan if you're not?

Amanda: [10:38] So we underwrite every deal that it would still work as a longterm rental. Because I know- Smart … there's a lot of talk in the space about you should buy a property, have it be a vacation rental, position it that way, and that, and all in bet on that. And I can appreciate in those certain markets where people do it. For example, we had one in the Smoky Mountains National Park. It would've never cash flowed as a longterm rental, but- Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm … most everything else I like to underwrite as a longterm rental in case there's anything that changes or a black swan event like COVID.

Christian: [11:07] Yep.

Shannon: [11:07] Yeah.

Amanda: [11:07] When we owned our Tahoe property, everyone pivoted to a longterm rental. Yep. We just made improvements and were able to ride that out. But you can never know, and there's just some hefty mortgages to hold when you're not getting that cashflow.

Shannon: [11:19] Yeah. Yeah. Do you have any other tips on selecting properties? Like, what do you look for? How many beds? How many baths? How big? What are your kind of… What's your buy box look like?

Amanda: [11:27] I think that depends on the specific region. Like, you don't wanna go, for instance, Gatlinburg, Smoky Mountains, and buy something that you could buy in a neighborhood here in Seattle. People are looking for a certain cabin aesthetic. Mm. They're looking for that log type building. I took a bet and did a stone, an old stone building and renovated it, but it had wood accents on the interior. In Lake Tahoe- Oh … you're going for a mountain house. People still like modern mountain, but again- Yeah you don't wanna feel like you're in the suburbs of a city- Yeah … you're going into. So is it in line with the market you're going to? I think something that's interesting, people always think bigger is better. But what we're starting to see is these smaller places rent better, where it's- Hmm … two bedroom, three bedroom. Because my preference had always been a four bedroom, five bedroom house. Yeah. If I could, hot tub, all the amenities. Totally. Yeah. And that's great.

Christian: [12:17] Mm-hmm.

Amanda: [12:18] You know, your family, you're not gonna go- Well, your family might need a five bedroom house.

Christian: [12:23] Well, we got three kids, so.

Amanda: [12:24] Um. Yeah, yeah. But s- but some families, you know, you're looking for- Yeah a two bedroom house, that's a little bit more cost effective. Yeah. The cleaning fees aren't gonna be through the roof. Yep. Mm-hmm. And, you know, you can manage that s- size house.

Christian: [12:34] Especially if one of those bedrooms is, like, a bunk room or something like that.

Amanda: [12:36] Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So in bigger markets that are more traditional, you're seeing some of those two bedroom units- Mm book up a lot better than these four and five bedroom units. And so those shoulder sh- seasons don't hit as hard. So I think it's a balance in defining, what is there already too much of? Where is the need? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Because if there's just five bedroom huge houses, maybe you could, you know, really drive a high occupancy rate having that two bedroom- Yeah more f- midline. Doing

Christian: [13:05] the opposite.

Amanda: [13:05] Right.

Shannon: [13:06] Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's really smart. Amanda's an amazing designer. She, she puts in, picks all the finishes, puts all the furniture in. So I wanted to ask you, one of the things that you have to do with an Airbnb is furnish it. Yep. So tell us about that piece. Please. What are your tips? How do you do it? Where do you buy your stuff? What does it cost?

Amanda: [13:23] Great. So there's a general rule of thumb, and I know a lot of people are gonna disagree, James Standard. Um, you want to budget $10,000 per bedroom. So-

Christian: [13:35] Wow … Amanda: if it's a four bedroom house, budget $40,000. And that sounds like a hefty amount. Yeah. Mm-hmm. But you're getting down to the linens- True … the mattresses, the silverware. What kind of coffee machines? What kind of pans are there? Mm-hmm. All of these amenities that, people go in and open a drawer, and it's one of those cheap plastic spatulas instead of, like, a nicer silicone one. Like- Yeah all of those things add up- Yeah … in the guest experience. So you're either gonna trade money or trade your time by trying to do it discounted and go to Facebook Marketplace and Craigslist and find all of these pieces, or you can work with a company. Or yourself to just buy everything and get it shipped. And when you're looking at different products, obviously simple things like who wants to stay in a house that has gray sheets? Nobody. No. Nobody. And I see, like, that mistake all the time. Always white.

Shannon: [14:24] Yes.

Amanda: [14:24] You can bleach it. It feels clean. Yeah. It feels like you're at a nice hotel.

Shannon: [14:27] Yes.

Amanda: [14:28] Any pillows, even if they're decorative, need to have zippers. Mm-hmm. Like, simple things. Everything has to be washed. Another thing, when you're looking at sofas, performance fabric, outdoor fabric. Yeah. Mm. It's gonna be high touch, high wear. People are gonna say they don't have dogs. They have dogs. Everyone, everyone on Airbnb has a support animal.

Christian: [14:49] Yes. Yes.

Amanda: [14:49] Yeah. Of course. So, a- Yeah. And-

Christian: [14:51] Yeah … Amanda: you can say- It's true … no dogs until you're blue in the face, you are going to just be up against that hurdle. So, uh, our, we proactively are dog friendly, and what that means for us is you have the sp- Silplatt spill mat. Yeah, yeah. Dog bowls are there. We leave treats for the dogs. Like-

Shannon: [15:07] Oh,

Christian: [15:07] wow

Amanda: [15:08] their dog, we have dog blankets because you say no dogs on furniture. Yeah. These dogs are their babies. Yeah. The dogs are on furniture. 100%. So, you do the best to, like, make sure your furniture is ready for that. So-

Shannon: [15:18] Mm-hmm … Amanda: the other thing I like to do when I get new f- product in is I Scotchgard everything.

Christian: [15:24] Mm-hmm.

Amanda: [15:24] Oh, good tip. So, I- Super

Christian: [15:25] smart,

Amanda: [15:25] yeah … I take it outside, headboards, everything, and I just try and do a couple of rounds of Scotchgard. So, Sunbrella fabric, if you can get Sunbrella fabric for your sofas, smart. Things that can be wiped down.

Shannon: [15:39] Where do you like to buy those sofas?

Amanda: [15:41] So I've, I have a few vendor accounts, but, like, Wayfair is a great one. They have different price points, and Wayfair has a lot of cool programs that if you are in this space and buying furniture often, you can get trade, and then they'll hold all of the shipments for you and ship all at once. Wow. And they'll design it for … They'll, they'll- Really? They'll design it for you.

Shannon: [16:02] Wow. That's amazing. Oh,

Amanda: [16:03] my gosh. And another cool thing, I think it's called, uh, Minoan. There's a lot of these bulk buying platforms now that have come together to take all of these vendor discounts and give them to short-term rental operators, so you can kind of buy in bulk, and they have packages outlined. So they've taken a lot of the guesswork out of it. When I was doing design for people's homes during the pandemic and it was like furniture was 20 weeks out, I was just heading to the outlet, outlets with a cargo van and-

Christian: [16:28] Yeah … Amanda: pointing. There you go. And just looking for the stuff that had the right fabrics, zippered covers, some of those things. I like leather a lot, easy to wipe down. Mm-hmm. So something that's visually interesting. I like to go pseudo-neutral in those basic things, 'cause you can always- Have accent colors here and there.

Amanda: [16:44] Yeah. Yeah. That's where you can bring it in. Yeah. And then you can continue to update it as trends change. You're not stuck with, like-

Christian: [16:49] A

Amanda: [16:49] crazy pattern couch or something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A chevron print headboard. Yeah. Hello, 2000. Totally.

Christian: [16:54] Yes, exactly.

Amanda: [16:55] Yes. Yeah,

Christian: [16:56] yeah. Yeah. Smart.

Shannon: [16:57] Do you have any things that people often forget to add to their Airbnb?

Amanda: [17:01] Lighting is a big one. Mm. You are probably setting up your Airbnb in the daytime, and everybody who sets up an Airbnb should stay at their Airbnb for a couple of days. Like- You'll

Christian: [17:10] learn real quick, I bet. Yeah. You're like, " Amanda: Oh." You'll, "Oh, I actually need a coffee grinder." Like, you know? Yeah. All those little things.

Amanda: [17:17] The can opener. Like, it was on my list, but I overlooked it on this checklist or that checklist. Guest access to things, like having it automated. I think a lot of people miss certain things, and having that communication somewhere within the home. You sent one person all the check-in instructions and the guidebook. That person may not be the best communicator to the group. Yep. So in order to- Yep … help with the frustration of other guests coming to the house, I like to have QR codes of my home manual and the Wi-Fi sign-up right when you walk in.

Christian: [17:46] Smart.

Amanda: [17:46] Amazing. So, like, some of that stuff is simple. Like, the property manager's here. Here's his phone number. Other things that other guests … It, it's hard because every guest is different. So when you're setting your home up and it's in a regional place that people don't know about or haven't visited before, they may not be used to a bear box. Yeah. Or do not leave a wrapper in your car.

Shannon: [18:07] Mm-hmm. Mm.

Amanda: [18:08] Yeah. So it, it's, I think it's area specific on- Things that often get overlooked.

Christian: [18:14] I've definitely heard stories- … of bears, like, breaking into cars, and then also, like, someone left the back door open, and then they went out for a few hours, and they came back, and there was a bear in the house. And it's like, holy cow.

Amanda: [18:26] We have had that. That's

Christian: [18:27] insane. That's crazy.

Amanda: [18:28] We, we have had that. Uh, our house sat vacant in Tahoe before we renovated it. Mm-hmm. And, um, I came home to a bear in the downstairs. What? We had a bear that used… But he used to live in the garage. So to him, he's like, "Excuse me, ma'am." You're in my house. Like, "This is my house." Yeah, so.

Christian: [18:44] This is my cave.

Amanda: [18:45] Once they've made ho- Like, they'll just keep coming back year after year. Wow. Wow. So our house specifically, we have to… We have big signs, like, "Not even a wrapper-" Yeah … in your car. Yeah. Wow. You, you… He will get in. Say hi to

Shannon: [18:58] Henry for us. Oh my gosh. Wow. Everybody's worried this is… I, I mean, everybody's worried about parties. This is what they are concerned about.

Amanda: [19:05] Yeah.

Shannon: [19:06] But you have bears.

Christian: [19:08] Yeah.

Amanda: [19:08] I, I have a… Yeah, I have a hack for the party thing.

Christian: [19:10] Okay, this is what I was just gonna bring up next. Let's talk about some challenges. Okay. So-

Amanda: [19:14] Okay … Speaker: I'm sure you've had parties. Yep. ' Speaker: Cause it is an Airbnb, and that is often why people are getting them. Yep.

Christian: [19:19] Tell us, how do you manage that?

Amanda: [19:22] The platform that I most use is Airbnb, and so they've gotten a lot better about filtering through. People can't book for one night if they haven't had reviews before.

Christian: [19:31] Ah.

Amanda: [19:32] They have some other algorithm settings that will say, "F- this reservation is flagged." So it'll call it out beforehand. The other thing is we don't have instant book on if you h- don't have two good reviews and a government ID uploaded. So we don't even deal with that mess. Mm. Typically, that means they've had two-

Shannon: [19:50] Good

Amanda: [19:50] stays. Yeah, yeah … yeah, two good stays. Yeah. And they've uploaded their government ID. It's not a surefire way.

Shannon: [19:55] Yeah.

Amanda: [19:55] But the surefire way, we pay the gentleman who lives next door to our properties. It- All of your properties? Not all of them. But, uh, we have friends at most. Yeah. We've made friends. Yes. Yeah. And most people, we're not buying nice houses. We're buying the house that people are like, "Somebody please fix that." Yeah. So usually, even though it's going into a vacation rental- They're happy you're there … they're happy to see it transition. Yeah. Yeah. So the one, our Tahoe property is four bed, three bath, so it- Yeah … can take-

Christian: [20:23] Lends itself to a party.

Amanda: [20:24] Yeah. Yeah. And the best thing is it says, "The property manager lives next door should you need anything." Oh. So it says it all right there. Yeah. Like, he's near. And it says it on the listing before you book. Yep. People won't read that.

Christian: [20:36] No.

Amanda: [20:37] And so when they come and arrive, it's like the first thing they see. And he's a wonderful gentleman, and he helps out. In summertime, we can get overloads of trash. You can't have trash outside with the bears. Yeah. Yeah. So it has to be brought out the morning of trash. It's just some nuanced stuff, like if the snowplow is late to come, like, he's out there with his snowblower. Or, or we get 17 feet like we did last season. Oh, geez. Wow. He's sending you pictures of the roof. Like, "Don't worry, your windows can still open. The trusses aren't, like flexing." Gosh,

Christian: [21:05] crazy.

Shannon: [21:06] Oh, my gosh.

Amanda: [21:06] So that has been, like, my surefire hack. And then in our Olympic National Park property, the gentleman of the, across the street, we let him store a car in our garage we don't use, so he feels ownership- Mm. Yeah … to make sure things aren't happening, and will text us or communicate to us before we ever get a violation or a call. I mean, in Tahoe, I don't hear anything because my neighbor- He's next door … he walks right over. I'll find out from the guest, like, "Please let your neighbor know. I'm so sorry." And I'm like, "Oh, my God. Well, Robbie took care of it." Like, I don't even know, because they respect him. Yeah. Yeah. And he, he sees it as his home to take care of.

Christian: [21:38] Yeah.

Amanda: [21:38] Mm-hmm. So.

Christian: [21:39] That's awesome. Amazing. What other significant challenges have you faced?

Amanda: [21:44] I think guest expectations can be a really tough thing to manage, right? Mm-hmm. People have spent a lot of money. Yeah. They've driven a long way. Mm. In other destinations they might have, in, gone through some weather challenges. They might have sat in traffic. They might have closed the freeway, so it's taken 12 hours to get there.

Christian: [22:02] Sheesh. Yeah.

Amanda: [22:02] So by the time they- Sounds

Christian: [22:04] like you've dealt, dealt with a few things.

Amanda: [22:06] So when they arrive to your property, if it's not meeting their expectations- Mm … it's really hard to work backwards from that. And ways that that happens is if guests don't read the listings. They don't read the listings. Yeah. You can put it in photos. They're gonna go through the first eight that appease them and move forward. So it's a blessing and a curse to have a well-designed property that maybe could be still older, and you've communicated, "My property has ship-like, s- ship-like stairs that not, might not be safe for some children."

Shannon: [22:36] Mm-hmm. Mm.

Amanda: [22:36] And then a mom can get there after traveling for 12 hours- Be

Shannon: [22:40] upset. Yeah … Amanda: and be like, "What?" Yeah. You know, even if we have all the baby gates and all of this and that- Yeah … it's not meeting her expectations. Yeah. And it's really hard to work backwards. Or, like, seasonal things. You get, in spring, mice, or bear season. Like, you are going to get Mother Nature. We live- Mm-hmm … adjacent to a state park. There's things that are out of your control. If you left the front door open to bring in all your groceries, a lot of things probably just came in with you, or your kids are outside playing and the slider's left open. I can't manage that. I can hear you out. I can empathize with you. I can ask you, "What would you like for me to do in this scenario?" Mm-hmm. How could I have better communicated it and hear you? But that's really … It's going to happen. People that have perfect five-star reviews, all of my kudos, because I get to a place where I'm not giving you a credit. I mean, you better understand what you're doing. Yeah. You didn't take the time to read this. This didn't meet your expectations. I hate that for you, but I'm not gonna reward you for-

Christian: [23:40] Not

Amanda: [23:40] doing what you're supposed to do … making a poor … Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Not doing your homework. So it's a fine line, because I think the catch-22 with these platforms that have reviews is- Mm-hmm people may not have realistic expectations when they're going to a property, and you can't solve all of these problems. Bad weather, I don't refund for bad weather. Like- Yeah … we have full-on winters. You hope you get great snow, but I can't guarantee it's not gonna be snow while you're driving up.

Christian: [24:03] Yeah. Yeah.

Amanda: [24:04] You know, July 4th weekend, we're seeing 100, you know, tens of thousands of people. So you have to manage your own expectations. I can't be responsible for that, and I encourage everyone to book travel insurance. Like-

Shannon: [24:17] Yeah.

Amanda: [24:17] Smart … giving them back the ownership of- Yeah … how they can better manage their trip, things that they should bring. And again, when they go to book, "Have you read the home rules and instructions to make sure it fits your family needs?" And everyone just clicks yes, but … Shannon: Mm-hmm. They don't actually read. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that's the most challenging part. I, I-

Shannon: [24:36] Yeah.

Amanda: [24:37] More often than not- 90% of the guests are great, but that 10%-

Christian: [24:42] Yeah

Amanda: [24:42] it, it can be time-consuming, and you're rewarded for it, so it's like- Yeah … it's the cost of doing business.

Christian: [24:48] Yeah.

Shannon: [24:49] Yeah. Um-

Christian: [24:50] It's not a hands-off business- … that's for sure. No. Yeah.

Shannon: [24:53] What is your advice on pricing? We just talked about 4th of July, so it's a busier time. Mm-hmm. How do you do your pricing? Do you use any of those technology pieces that allow you to have dynamic pricing?

Amanda: [25:04] Yep. So we use PriceLabs. We started using that about two years ago. I had never used it before, because I have a, a great community of people who are also in short-term rentals, so we were kind of like archaic and texting and like, "How are you looking for your occupancy?" But once we brought online our Smoky Mountains property, people there are very tech-savvy. Wow. They have every amenity. Wow. They are like professional vacation rental owners. So being in that space really helped me, like streamline and think through, "Okay, this doesn't need to be on my plate." Airbnb rewards you for optimizing your listing often and changing that pricing, changing your photos, changing your description. The algorithm kinda lifts you up. Oh, wow. So with PriceLabs, it, I think does it every 24 hours based on the market around you.

Shannon: [25:49] Oh, my gosh. That's amazing.

Amanda: [25:50] Yeah. I love that. We'll see a swing from v- super, super rough low season, $185 a night, like I almost just rather not rent it, up to like July 4th, we'll price around 1,100 to 1,200 a night.

Christian: [26:01] Wow.

Shannon: [26:01] Oh, my gosh. Wow.

Amanda: [26:03] Yeah. That's

Christian: [26:03] huge.

Shannon: [26:04] Do you manage these properties yourself, or do you have a property manager?

Amanda: [26:07] I do manage these ones myself. Yeah. I'm a glutton for punishment. I love texting people about toasters at 2:00 in the morning. No, it's-

Shannon: [26:17] Uh-huh.

Amanda: [26:18] It's usually not, again, most of it's automated messaging, and then if a guest has a specific question, most people are wonderful and kind and so grateful. So y- you remember that when you do get a guest that isn't. Mm-hmm. And it's able to be like, "Oh, yeah, I haven't had to deal with this in a while." Mm-hmm. Yeah. "This is part of my job, and I'm being paid for this." Yeah.

Shannon: [26:38] So- How much time does it take you, you think? Can you, can you quantify that?

Amanda: [26:42] Yeah. I'd say in total- Four to six hours a week because there's cleaner communication. You're paying your quarterly or monthly taxes, depending on the region. Going into summer or high season for whatever property it may be, that may go up a little bit because you're gonna have different guest communication or they may have questions, right? You wanna tell them, "This is the best restaurant. This is the best hike." Yeah. You wanna be that, like- Totally. Yeah … point person for them. Mm-hmm. And some people are so cute and excited, and then you're like, "I've just spent four hours talking to a stranger on the internet." Yep. Like, giving them the feedback. So overall, I'd say between four and eight hours. I could probably optimize it a little bit more with my automated messaging, but I do enjoy talking to them. Like, people are excited. Yeah. Yeah. It makes you real. Yeah. And I think they respect your home differently when you're authentic with them and have a conversation. Like, you're not a faceless hosting company. Yep. You're a real human being who loves this home as much as you want them to.

Shannon: [27:39] Absolutely. Yeah. What would it… Do you know what the cost is if you were to hire a property manager? I- What does that look like?

Amanda: [27:44] Do, yeah. It looks like about 25%, depending on the market. Ooh, wow. 25 to 30%. So obviously, standard property management for our longterm rentals ranges between, like, 8 and 10%.

Shannon: [27:56] Mm-hmm.

Amanda: [27:56] Mm-hmm. So it's a pretty hefty climb because they are… And it depends on everything they do, right? If they're doing a check-in before the guests arrive to make sure everything's set up for them, that's usually, like, a $50 charge, depending on where you are. If they're doing all the guest communication end to end, that's when we'll see that 25 plus range. Mm-hmm. But at this point, for the bigger markets, I'd say you're looking at, like, 30%, 25 to 30. 25 on the low end.

Christian: [28:21] So if you really want- Wow, okay … your short-term rental to be a completely hands-off investment, you're most likely Shelling out 30% of your revenue-

Amanda: [28:32] Correct … Speaker: in order to take that off your plate. Yep. Yeah. And then they s- you typically pay on top of that for any repairs or if they have to buy any of the amenities for you. Yeah, makes

Christian: [28:40] sense.

Amanda: [28:41] Yeah. Yeah. And it totally makes sense. Yeah. But for this season of our life, we're taking all of that cash flow to redeploy into other investments, so it's 48 hours to me.

Christian: [28:53] Makes sense.

Amanda: [28:54] Yep.

Shannon: [28:54] Amanda, how much do you usually put down, or what's kind of the best deal you've gotten on an Airbnb?

Amanda: [28:59] I've had a few wins. I think we chatted about the Tahoe property a little bit, and that one was a significant win. As I mentioned, it had been sitting on the market for over a year.

Christian: [29:09] Wow.

Shannon: [29:09] Wow.

Amanda: [29:10] A three-story chalet-style project that needed some love, and I was here to give it. And so I think what was unique about that is we were able to position it as a second home mortgage- Ooh, nice … because we, we do stay there.

Christian: [29:23] Yep.

Amanda: [29:23] When we got to the closing table, after seller credits, it has a three-story deck, so three stories up. It used to have lake views- Wow … before the trees grew. Mm-hmm. So this really high deck that had some rot to it that needed to be addressed, and we were bold in asking for our sellers credit. Mm-hmm. And I think our cash to close on that conventional 5% down came out to 17,500.

Shannon: [29:46] What?

Amanda: [29:46] Dang. Oh, my God. And when I saw the closing statement, I was like, "A Toyota Corolla- or a house in Tahoe?" Like- Which

Shannon: [29:53] one? Or a vacation.

Amanda: [29:54] Yeah. It really- Like, is that your vacation that's in house it costs … w- was mind-blowing. We were a- able to negotiate it- Wow … and talk with the seller. She had already moved. Her family had lived there, but it had been sitting, another property that had been just sitting vacant- Forever. Yeah … and she's paying to just maintain it, to keep bears out- Yep. Yeah … to keep leaks from happening. And so again, mutually agreeable terms, and the amount we brought to that closing table, the 17,500, was all the cash flow we had gotten as making the basement suite in our Seattle property- Wow … an in-law suite. So- I, the power of buying-

Christian: [30:27] Otherwise known as an ADU in Seattle-

Amanda: [30:29] Yeah … Speaker: technically. Yeah, so like that power of just buying that first home on a 3.5% down FHA- Yeah … mortgage- Mm-hmm … allowed us to buy the second property in Tahoe, and we've just taken the proceeds from each one to the next one. I mean, uh, the other- Incredible we took the cash flow from the Tahoe property that had saved up for a year and a half or something- Mm-hmm … and that's was the down payment for our Gatlinburg property using- Wow … a DSCR loan, so- Mm … debt service coverage ratio- Yep … for a fix and flip. And-

Shannon: [31:00] Amazing … Amanda: it's just that power of it compounding and po- like, it, we joke that it's Monopoly money. We don't see any of the cash. Yeah. We don't do anything fun with it- Yeah … outside of buying vacation rentals, but like doesn't affect our daily life- Mm-hmm … because we don't touch it. Yep. So you just get to buy these funny little homes. More and more and more. Yeah. Yeah, these funny little homes as long as you don't touch it. So I think- Smart … getting creative when talking to your lender what different products or what you need to do to meet the requirements to qualify for conventional loans. I know there's so many different loan types, but you- Tons, yeah … may be surprised with the down payment that you have to bring for your cash to close or if value add to bring that equity in. So when you cash out refinance, if you choose to do so, you may not have money left in the deal, so-

Christian: [31:41] Yeah … Amanda: if you're even net neutral, it could be, still be a huge opportunity to give your family those free vacations in- Yep … your destination you prefer. With tax write-offs. Wow,

Amanda: [31:49] amazing. Yeah.

Christian: [31:50] Yeah, and if you need a, a lender referral, just reach out. I can share those with you, so.

Amanda: [31:54] Cool.

Christian: [31:55] What are some of the other tech tools that you're using that, not just for pricing, but for actually, like, communication? 'Cause it seems like any time we've ever rented an Airbnb, I'm always the one that books everything, so I know. Oh. And that's my job. I'm always getting, like, really nice messages, and they're always so fast. And I'm like, "Yeah, how do they do this?" And my assumption is there's some sort of automated- Yep … messaging platform.

Amanda: [32:16] And that's through Airbnb. There's other ones- Yeah … like Hosty, Guesty.

Christian: [32:20] Mm-hmm.

Amanda: [32:20] And there's a few more, but that kind of overcomplicates it for me. Yeah. I have all of my automated messaging s- set up in Airbnb, and since we're not doing 40 Airbnbs- Yeah 30 vacation rentals, we only have six or seven, so.

Christian: [32:33] Only.

Amanda: [32:34] I know. Amanda, six years ago, would be slapping this Amanda. I'm

Christian: [32:38] sure, yeah.

Amanda: [32:39] So it doesn't seem daunting. With Google Drive and Google Sheets, that's where we keep all of our home manuals, so we can update everything there. And then they're provided a link to that for the time duration that they're in the property. Um, we use Schlage Encode to update all our- Mm … all of our locks.

Christian: [32:53] Yep.

Amanda: [32:53] Mm-hmm.

Christian: [32:54] We do- We have the same thing in our Maui house 'cause it's just so easy. Yep. Just WiFi enabled, here's your code- Code … for this many days and-

Amanda: [33:01] Yep … Speaker: you're good to go. The other thing that I hate that I have but I have to have- Mm … is we do have Ring cameras at some of our properties. Mm-hmm. Like, when we're getting dumped on- I, I need to see the snow load on the back deck. Yeah. And you can't articulate to a guest, like, "Hey, can you go out there and get a tape measure out? Is it four inches? Is it 10 inches?" Yeah. You know? Like- Yeah … do I need to call a company in to come clear that out? And- Yep … though we have some of that set up already, there's plow services, having that visibility to see, okay, they missed a spot on the driveway, or there was a car at this time, and just not having to involve somebody else makes it easier. And also, when you put that you have video surveillance on your property going back to the parties-

Christian: [33:39] Mm-hmm

Amanda: [33:40] I think then they realize, like, "Oh, this isn't what I'm looking for. I'm gonna move on to that other property who doesn't have cameras." Yeah. And I don't- I don't have interest in watching my cameras, like at all. I don't wanna see what you're do- Yeah I barely wanna see what I'm doing- Exactly … let alone I wanna see what you're doing. What you're doing. Yeah. Absolutely. But when I need to, like, oh my gosh, we're getting a huge storm- Yeah … or, like, what's this, the, it's so windy out, how are the trees blowing? Yeah. Like, when they get up to 80 mile an hour winds, you're watching the cameras like, okay, we, we live another day.

Christian: [34:07] Yeah. I-

Shannon: [34:08] I, I was gonna say, we have a Ring camera for Maui. I personally find it depressing- Yeah … when I get a notification. Same. 'Cause I look, I mean, 'cause you have all these different beautiful place, you're like, "Oh, it's raining here," and I'm looking at this- Yeah … either snow- 33 degrees and- … or sunny or just a different- Great … place, and I, I get jealous

Amanda: [34:25] at my camera. I wonder if Maui's be different than Tahoe, because when I get to any of the properties, I'm like, "We gotta fix this. We gotta fix this." Oh, yeah. That is also true. Yeah. And, and I was like, my joke is- Yeah … if you love going to a place, don't buy a house there. Because you're gonna see the Home Depot of that place.

Christian: [34:39] Yes. You do get to know the Home Depot of that place. Yes. Oh, we spent days

Shannon: [34:41] in the Home

Christian: [34:42] Depot in

Shannon: [34:42] Maui. Yes,

Christian: [34:43] and days in the return line at Home Depot in Maui. Mm-hmm. Yes.

Shannon: [34:46] I had a question about, so it looks like when you buy properties in locations all over the place, there's different needs, and there's different ways to maintain homes. Like, I, when we bought a property in a new location, we're like, oh, we didn't think about termites. Yeah. We've never had to deal with termites before. We don't have that in

Christian: [35:02] Seattle, so

Shannon: [35:03] yeah. How did you learn all these different specifics that are needed to maintain the homes or just make sure everything's going well when all the needs are different in different locations?

Amanda: [35:12] I think the best thing I've ever done is in every one of our Airbnbs, there seems to be this symbiotic relationship of finding a wonderful cleaner who has a wonderful handyman husband.

Christian: [35:25] Wow.

Amanda: [35:26] Oh my gosh,

Christian: [35:26] amazing. That seems like a perfect combo.

Amanda: [35:27] Holy cow. We have that synergy at almost every property, and it has been life-changing. Oh, my God, yeah. Like, I love that big cleaning company. It's great, but I love a person who sees my home as their home- Yes … and they're, and another person who wants to also see my home as their home- Yeah … because they're the, your eyes and ears. And is it always perfect? No. I've also had the luxury, before I had my daughter, I was at most of these properties for the rehab- Mm and doing some of the rehab myself. So I've got to insulate underneath our A-frame and see what it looks like- Yep … and know that we need weather stripping there, and the wind's gonna come this way and blow that way. Oh, yeah. So that was kind of my downfall, but also a blessing in that I can kind of understand w- the things that we're gonna see. Termites, for instance- Mm … we suffer from that in Tucson, Arizona, so having those contracts in place so they're doing it seasonal- Yep … and it's automated. But yes, I think the big win for- Me has been finding wonderful people who see their home as your home, and you reward them. Oh, yeah. Like, I'm- Mm-hmm … so grateful. They need anything, how do I get it to you- Yep … as it relates to my property- Yeah … as it doesn't. You're part of my family now. You're saving my life. Like- Yeah … how can I help you- Help your people out … help me help you?

Christian: [36:41] Yep,

Amanda: [36:42] exactly.

Shannon: [36:42] Yeah. So. Amazing. That's great. Chris, do you wanna ask a, a little bit about the, the market and where it's going?

Christian: [36:48] Yeah, I mean, this is- I

Shannon: [36:49] wanna know about

Christian: [36:49] that … a big deal. I mean, there's been the Airbnb-pocalypse- Oh … or I don't know what they call it. Yep. They always have weird names for everything. Yeah. Like, what are you seeing in the market for Airbnbs, and have you seen this, this complete crumble?

Amanda: [37:02] I have not seen a complete crumble. I actually just ran my numbers for 2023. If you're my CPA, I ran them two months ago. And- … I've been on top of it. It's

Christian: [37:12] not March.

Amanda: [37:13] Yeah.

Shannon: [37:13] Shout out to our CPA that, or, well,

Amanda: [37:16] our bookkeeper- Shout out to our bookkeeper, Jasmine … that we love.

Shannon: [37:17] Yes. Hey, Jasmine.

Christian: [37:19] Jasmine.

Amanda: [37:21] I have been the same for the last three years, which is a win for me. That's huge. Wow. Considering we were pandemic, out of pandemic- Yeah … and now to come out of 2023 with the same numbers, I consider that a huge win when all the- That's massive … when all the communication was Airbnb bust. But I do think you have better operators in this space who are treating this like a business. When we launched ours in 2016, you're like, "Welcome to our basement apartment." Yeah. Like, "Do you want me to let you in?" Like, now it's this whole- Automated thing, yeah … here's your code. Here's the QR code. Here's your fruit basket, you know? Yeah. And I appreciate that as a guest, but as a host, you don't just get to have, you know, like a bear print pillow set on your bed- and think that you're going to be competitive. You have to be thoughtful about your space. Yeah. Who's coming to it and why. One of my properties, though, was in the Smoky Mountains, where I think the Airbnb bust might be a bigger topic. And so we chose to sell ours in August of this last year. So we had renovated it, fixed it up, but with having a ch- having a daughter-

Christian: [38:26] Mm-hmm

Amanda: [38:27] it was a two flight. It, it wasn't a nonstop flight. Oh. Yeah. And I do think it is important to go see your properties. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's, it's huge. And so-

Christian: [38:36] It's also a tax write-off.

Amanda: [38:37] There's… Who doesn't wanna go to Gatlinburg and Dollywood, y'all? Yeah. Um, I don't, y'all. 'Cause you've been. It was great, but, like, it is a different world out there. And when I was driving around, I was just so taken aback by how many new builds I was seeing.

Christian: [38:52] Wow.

Amanda: [38:52] Mm. And then I did the actual numbers on how many new permits, how many new builds were coming online in the next six to nine months, and then how our, um, occupancy was trending down with pricing. Yeah. Wow. Even though they've seen an increase in people coming to the region. Historically, it's been at, like, 12 million. Now they're north of 13-something million.

Shannon: [39:12] Wow.

Amanda: [39:12] So they're seeing that increase, but the saturation is- Yeah … kind of what I would perceive at this tipping point. So we thought it best to sell while it made sense. We didn't have a standard cabin. That was the log build. It was this cool stone thing close to town, so we had some advantages there. Mm-hmm. But they weren't going to be advantages as more projects came online with indoor pools- Yeah … indoor hot tubs. Yeah. Literally miniature golf- Wow … in their backyard. What? Whoa. Like, the amenities in these- Gosh … cabins Is not y- you're renting out a r- Yeah … you know, a downstairs- Yeah … apartment. Like, they- Yeah … really do-

Christian: [39:47] Let's, let's go deeper into that. Yeah. What design trends or unique trends are you seeing? 'Cause I've been seeing stuff like that with, like, someone built a mini golf thing in the backyard and like- Yeah I saw a video yesterday where the property literally had a lazy river go from the front yard under the house to the backyard.

Shannon: [40:07] Insane. Like,

Christian: [40:07] just crazy stuff. Do you have to

Shannon: [40:08] be a house shaped like a potato-

Christian: [40:10] Yeah … Shannon: to

Amanda: [40:11] do well? You know, we don't have a house shaped like a potato yet. Uh,

Christian: [40:15] but there's- 'Cause there is one in Idaho.

Amanda: [40:16] Yeah, there i- Yeah … and they do exceptionally well.

Christian: [40:19] Yes, I've heard. Yeah. I haven't looked, but I assume.

Amanda: [40:21] W- we hadn't historically been in a place to buy something as cool and unique, and as much as I love cool and unique, at the price point we could afford that made in sense to our investing structure, we also had to get our capital ba- back out. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So some banks wouldn't lend on some of these unique pro- On a potato. Yeah. It's hard to get lending on a potato. Um- Can't

Christian: [40:41] get, get a million dollar loan on a potato-

Amanda: [40:43] Yeah … for

Christian: [40:43] some reason.

Amanda: [40:44] But y- you are seeing, like, mural walls.

Christian: [40:47] Yeah.

Amanda: [40:48] A moment of silence. I'm gonna do one. Do I love them? No. And you're seeing these big, bright colors. Yeah. And that's not design that I personally love. I like to evoke design through textures and patterns. Mm-hmm. But that can be changed and upgraded, and I do think you're seeing a lot of these big, bold commitments- Mm-hmm … to making it a vacational- Mm-hmm … a, a rental. Like indoor slides and- Yeah … things that if you- Very

Christian: [41:14] themey.

Amanda: [41:15] Yeah, and if you can't- Yeah … pivot to a long-term rental, that's fine. Mm-hmm. And there's a lot of people in the space who are like, "I'm all in on a short-term rental." Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Versus a long-term rental. So I kind of tow that line, because I don't personally want to go to a space that has a neon sign that's like, "Let's go girls." Like, that's not me.

Christian: [41:35] We have one in our house. Yeah.

Amanda: [41:36] We

Shannon: [41:37] do

Amanda: [41:37] not.

Shannon: [41:37] We do not.

Amanda: [41:38] Like, I love it for people. Oh. And I see these themed ones and I'm like- Yeah … that is so fun, I would never… That's too much for me.

Christian: [41:45] Not for your properties- Yes. Yeah … but you'll go visit, maybe.

Amanda: [41:48] Uh, yeah. I just feel like- She's like, "No." I just feel like they're so on trend right now. Yes. What's that look like in 18 months when- Yeah, totally … 90% of the space- Mm-hmm Yeah … looks like that? So I'm trying to be a little bit more- Long-term … how can it evolve?

Shannon: [41:59] Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Amanda: [42:00] And I, I'm actually struggling that a little bit right now as I design a Seattle property. Mm-hmm. Because as somebody who lives here, you're like, "Am I gonna put a Starbucks sign?" No. Yeah.

Christian: [42:09] Like,

Amanda: [42:09] yeah. But I wanna, like, lean into- Yeah … the coastal vibe. Yeah. So how do I do that in a taste that I would prefer? But I'm not- Mm … decorating it for me, I'm decorating it for our guests. And that's why- Yeah … I will be doing my mural wall for the first time. Mm.

Shannon: [42:22] Yes.

Amanda: [42:23] I'm trying to do… Yeah, we'll see. Hopefully it won't be in bold. It'll be monotone.

Shannon: [42:27] What's it gonna be a mural of?

Amanda: [42:28] Um, I'm trying to do this, like, black and white vibe of what you would- Oh … find in the sea around us, up the hallway to the- Oh, cool … rooftop. Ooh. And then, you know. I like this. Have you guys went into a Filson store?

Christian: [42:39] Yeah.

Shannon: [42:39] Yes.

Amanda: [42:40] I'm t- I'm trying to evoke- Okay Filson vibes. That, that's a

Christian: [42:42] cool vibe. Yeah. And that's a, that's- Love that … it's got so much longevity as well, just 'cause Filson's been around forever.

Amanda: [42:48] And it's iconic to Seattle. Yes, yeah. Mm-hmm. And you feel, like, Pacific Northwest without- It's

Christian: [42:52] brilliant … Amanda: without a- Yeah … tree mural. Yes.

Amanda: [42:55] And Sasquatch and- Exactly a Starbucks cup. So blending those two things without being- That would be a

Shannon: [43:00] great mural.

Amanda: [43:01] On the.

Shannon: [43:01] Sasquatch with the Starbucks cup. Yeah,

Amanda: [43:03] there it is. Hey, when

Christian: [43:04] you have a- That's more Leavenworth.

Amanda: [43:05] Yeah. Right? Oh, it's all over the Olympic N- It, yeah. Sea-

Christian: [43:08] Seabrook too Same thing.

Shannon: [43:09] Yeah … Amanda: Seabrook's very Sasquatch. Yeah. Oh yeah, Seabrook. That's another- Mm-hmm … community that's… Mm-hmm.

Christian: [43:13] Yeah. Yeah.

Shannon: [43:14] Growing, huge. Yeah.

Christian: [43:16] Where do you kinda see the future of short-term rentals heading, like, with all the ever-evolving regulatory- issues and market heading. Like, I mean, we saw Palm Springs say no more- Mm-hmm … and then that market just seems like it cratered. The home prices down there just cratered. What's your opinion on that, and what do you kinda see happening?

Amanda: [43:37] I think regulations are your friend. Yeah. Because if you're exploring markets without those regulations, you stand that chance to be blindsided, and- They're

Christian: [43:45] probably coming.

Amanda: [43:46] Right. Yeah. I, I prefer regulations. It gives you boundaries. They've set a cap to what makes sense for their community, and also, like, I've lived in some of these communities as well, so I can appreciate that that's still not always a balanced- Yep … opinion.

Christian: [44:02] Yep

Amanda: [44:03] But if you're going to explore a new place, it better be a traditional vacation tourist market. Maybe they don't have regulations in place, but they've had historical tourism- Mm-hmm … that bring, drives dollars to their community, so they likely have a forward-thinking opinion of it. But if you can, I would stick to a place where there's regulations. It, otherwise it turns into the Wild, Wild West. Yeah. And you're likely going to, if you're getting great numbers, you're likely gonna see some competitors come in pretty quickly. There's not to say that there's not an opportunity there, but I would prefer the regulations to follow the letter of the law, to pay the taxes. Everyone- Mm-hmm … I'm happy, they're happy, you're happy. There's always the conversation of if you're taking housing supply from the market. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And that's a hard balance, and I obviously have strong opinions about that because the properties I've bought have never been turnkey. They're not something that's flying off the shelf. They've been sitting on the market for how long? Yeah. Because people didn't- Yeah … want to repair them or have the money to come and repair them. They wouldn't qualify for a traditional loan.

Shannon: [45:05] Yep.

Christian: [45:06] So you're, if anything, you're adding some, some sort of housing supply to the market- I

Amanda: [45:11] mean, obviously- … 'cause it was- … I'm making it- … Speaker: livable again … Amanda: yeah, I'm, I feel adamantly that- Yeah everyone else had the opportunity to repair this property. Yeah. But because we're able to creatively position it in this way, we can afford to make these repairs- Mm … and bring it back online into the market. So, and add dollars to the community. Totally. Yeah. I, I prefer regulations, but if you know of a market with no regulations and great occupancy rate- slide into my DMs. Yeah. I, I think you're just, it's just a matter of time. Yeah. It's a matter of time. It's gonna happen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, I mean, we're seeing it in Tahoe. Mm-hmm. And fortunately, y- i- if it's a market that's for it, you typically get grandfathered in- Mm Mm-hmm … and you get streamlined through the process. Or you're in Palm Springs, where you thought you were good to go, and now you're getting blindsided- Yeah … and this little nest egg that you thought you had-

Christian: [46:01] Yeah … Amanda: is d- Mm … drying up. It sucks, yeah.

Amanda: [46:03] Oh, I, I'd be gutted. Yeah. I mean, we're facing- Yeah … some tough things with our Olympic National. They have a big vote coming up. Mm-hmm. So we'll see how that comes out. We're fortunate that we ran the numbers as a long-term rental, and we pivoted to mid-term rental in the shoulder season, so we're flexible in that way.

Christian: [46:20] Yeah. That's smart.

Amanda: [46:21] Mm-hmm. But-

Christian: [46:22] Yeah … Amanda: yeah, it's going to be an interesting season. Mm-hmm. Interesting vote.

Shannon: [46:26] But your opinion's not that short-term rentals are dead, it's not a good investment, you shouldn't do it, 'cause there was a lot, a big push online. Oh my gosh, they're amazing. This is the return. Yes. This, this was for years. And so then- Oh … a lot of people started doing it, quote, unquote, a lot of people started doing it, and now it's oversaturated, and it's a bad investment. Don't even think about doing it.

Amanda: [46:44] 100% a bad investment. Everybody should get out.

Christian: [46:47] Yeah. Don't do

Amanda: [46:48] it. Don't do it. There's no opportunity there. No. I, I think that there's great opportunity if you're smart about it. You are not going to cash flow- Maybe you will, and there's an exception to everything, but you're not getting cash flow when you're buying a brand-new cabin in a very expensive market- Mm-hmm that's seeing standard, like, they're building 300 new of the same thing out there. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You're furnishing it. It, it's an expensive endeavor to start up. I know there's things like Airbnb arbitrage as well, but-

Christian: [47:14] Yeah … you- Actually, let's talk about that for a second. Yeah. Can you just explain what that is, just real quick? Yeah. 'Cause I know that that's a big thing on the interwebs-

Amanda: [47:22] Yep … as well. Airbnb arbitrage is the idea that you're gonna approach a landlord or an owner- Mm … and proposition them with a higher rental price to be able to rent their property out with their permission on the short-term rental site. So typ- sometimes you may pay, um, a fee or pay them a cut of the profits, but you are then responsible for the guest experience, furnishing it, all of that. Mm-hmm. And so it gives you the opportunity, without coming up with a down payment, to create an Airbnb business- Mm-hmm … which can be super beneficial and great. For me, I'm into real estate investing and why I do short-term rentals is to increase that cash flow to do more long-term investments. Yeah. So though I think it's an interesting approach- Mm-hmm it's like, kind of like a Turo of your car- Exactly … but it's somebody else's property. You don't get any of the tax advantages. Mm-hmm. You don't get any of the benefits of being a, a land owner or-

Christian: [48:18] The

Amanda: [48:18] wealth building … investor. Yeah. Yeah, the wealth building side- Mm-hmm … which is why I'm into it. Yeah. Maybe it gives ev- some other people that opportunity to get that cash flow and position it into investing- Mm-hmm but you're giving yourself another job.

Christian: [48:30] Yeah.

Shannon: [48:30] Yeah.

Amanda: [48:31] Yeah. Absolutely.

Christian: [48:31] And you gotta look at it that way, too. Yeah. It is- 'Cause it is a, it is a job … it's a

Shannon: [48:34] business.

Amanda: [48:34] Yeah, that startup cost is not low, and then you have all of the communication. Or what if your landlord changes his mind and he- Mm-hmm … decides to sell his property? What are you doing with all of that?

Shannon: [48:46] Mm. So. Mm-hmm.

Christian: [48:47] Yeah.

Shannon: [48:47] Yeah. I have a question. You can answer this as somebody who does Airbnbs or just general investor.

Amanda: [48:53] Okay.

Shannon: [48:53] What's the best piece of investing advice you've ever gotten?

Amanda: [48:58] Oh, I love this one. I love this one a lot because my husband and I, now husband, 13 years ago, I was living in Lake Tahoe in a small cabin that I rented. He was going to school at UC Santa Cruz, and we joked that we're so rich, we have a beach house and a mountain house- … and we were making, like, no money. Yeah. And it was wonderful. Yeah. It was amazing. And the advice I got was from a good family friend of ours who says, "Take the risk. You have the chance to lose it all once." And this was- Oh … six or six years ago. It was 2016 when we were trying to buy our primary residence. Mm-hmm. And the market, even then, people don't remember, but it was still, we put 10 offers over 10 months- Oh, yeah … and lost everything, and ended up having to go, like, 100,000 over-

Christian: [49:40] Mm-hmm … Amanda: what we wanted to spend. And it was like, "Take that risk. You have the chance to lose everything once." And what that meant to us was, well, remember when we ha- like- Had nothing … Amanda: had nothing and- Yeah … serving tables and we were- Yeah … meeting in between our houses? Yeah. And we thought that was the best life then. So, like, taking the risk now, you have a chance to still rebuild. What, so what, you lost everything. No one's keeping score but yourself. No one cares about you enough to keep score. Yeah. Totally. It's just your reflection, so if you, the two of you are okay with taking the risk, willing to lose it, calculated risk at that- Yeah, totally … Amanda: you have a chance- Absolutely … to rebuild it together. Now, with- That's amazing. Yeah … my daughter, I'm like, "Oh, my God." Yeah, no. Different story. Absolutely.

Amanda: [50:21] Yeah. I become such a- Yeah, it's different with kids … risk adverse investor- Yes … Shannon: but- Yeah … Speaker: 100% different story … Amanda: I'm starting to be able to tiptoe back and not be in the, you know, ti-

Christian: [50:29] New mom phase.

Amanda: [50:29] Yeah.

Shannon: [50:30] Yeah. Yeah. Where you're

Christian: [50:30] like, "Okay, we'll

Amanda: [50:31] survive."

Shannon: [50:32] Nesting.

Amanda: [50:33] Yeah.

Shannon: [50:33] Yeah. Yeah. Uh, for somebody who's looking to get into short-term rentals, maybe us, who knows?

Amanda: [50:39] Yeah.

Shannon: [50:39] What would be your tip? What's the first thing they should do?

Amanda: [50:42] I think I would want to identify- My cash position, right? How much do I want to invest? What's my return that I'm looking for on that? Mm-hmm. Because the numbers are going to vary greatly. If you're just looking for cash flow and return and high occupancy rate, you're gonna wanna go into those traditional vacation rental markets and have a competitive product with all of the amenities. If you're trying to enjoy it yourselves, you're gonna find that happy medium and that blend. I wanna be X amount of hours driving. What's unique to that place? So in your scenario, I think, w- where are you guys trying to go? What do you wanna do? Mm-hmm. And then what's that product? Are you gonna try and get your capital back out? So- Always. I, I would, yeah. Yeah, always. Always, yes. It's possible. I guess I would take it back to that strategy. Yeah. Yeah. So then you're looking for a STR- Mm-hmm … or a BrBnB. Mm-hmm. Where do you have people that you could call on to repair that or to do those renovations? Mm-hmm. What's realistic? Yep. Maybe we can buy houses next to our neighbors on a beach.

Christian: [51:38] There you go.

Shannon: [51:39] Let's do

Amanda: [51:39] it. Yeah.

Christian: [51:39] Management partners.

Amanda: [51:40] Don't talk dirty to me. We're, we're, we're here for it. Um, yeah, I think really deciding what, what's the end goal of this product. Yeah. Mm-hmm. For us it's always been, we want to build our long-term rental portfolio that's under management by somebody else. Mm-hmm. The Airbnbs are double that long-term rental income, so it affords us the opportunity to lock away cash.

Shannon: [52:02] Okay, so reflecting on your journey-

Amanda: [52:04] Yep … Shannon: as a person who's been doing Airbnbs for a while, if you could go back to the beginning, would you do anything different? Absolutely. Yes. My biggest fault is imposter syndrome- Mm-hmm … in every arena, and I really applied that in the Airbnb space as well. I would see people who were professionally running Airbnbs in markets where they were very competitive and think, "I can't play in that market. This is the big dogs." Mm-hmm. And I have one really specific example of this. I was working on an A-frame in North Carolina. We bought this A-fra- right, North Carolina, cool. Yeah. Yeah. A-frames are all the rage. Yeah. Amazing. It needed complete repairs. We got the price of the A-frame for the land value- Wow because when we did inspections, we were like, "This would be a complete rebuild," but these people who built it came out to show it to us, and we just felt bad. Aw. Totally, yeah. Yeah. And so we'll give them the land value, and then they accepted, and we're like- Ooh … "Oh, gosh- That's pretty great … we have a pro- Wow we have a real project out here." So, right? You're like, "Oh, my gosh. This is a great purchase price." Yeah. Yeah. The ARV's there. It makes sense. Well, I was also designing an Airbnb for a client in Lake Lure, so my purchase price, repair costs were about 200K out of pocket- Mm-hmm … for a property that was worth 250. Mm-hmm. St- the numbers work.

Shannon: [53:23] Mm-hmm. Yep.

Amanda: [53:23] And it, cashflow's great as an Airbnb rental, but he purchased a property with the same amount down that was the purchase price, of my property, same in repair cost. His property ARV was worth 8 or 900,000 when he was finished, and I had done all of the design for it. Wow. Picked out all the finishes, and one, I, I'm so stoked for them, but that- Yeah Yeah … they were literally- Kinda opened your eyes … I finished designing my A-frame and drove to his property in North Carolina to do the install of the furnishings- Mm-hmm … and we were just chatting through, like, stoked that our projects were finished. Mm-hmm. And so comparing those pro formas was the reality that y- you can still do it with the same capital. Yeah. You just have to be strategic and not talk yourself down that, well, the purchase price is so much higher. Surely, I shouldn't be doing that project.

Shannon: [54:07] Mm.

Amanda: [54:08] Make it more of an apples to apples of that leverage of that capital- Mm that you can compete in those places. Don't think because the property's cheaper, it's the right investment.

Christian: [54:16] Yeah.

Shannon: [54:16] Yeah.

Christian: [54:18] Okay- That imposter syndrom- drome is real.

Shannon: [54:20] It is.

Christian: [54:21] It is. With everything.

Amanda: [54:22] Yeah.

Christian: [54:22] Yeah. Yeah. Trying to overcome that at any point in life is always a struggle and something that everyone, you know, has to deal with.

Shannon: [54:29] I'm gonna throw out something. Christian doesn't know I'm gonna ask this. Oh, he- He really wants to do something, and I want to see your opinion.

Christian: [54:35] Mm.

Shannon: [54:35] Mm. He wants to buy, I'm sure you've seen this online, he wants to buy some land- Mm … then build numerous little cabins, maybe have one central spot, sell some of them off, Airbnb them. What are your thoughts? Have you looked into this?

Amanda: [54:49] Yes and no. I wouldn't say I've looked into it to Shannon, who is the most detail-orientated person- … and could probably recite all of the litigious pieces on land use. But here's my version of how I've looked into it. When I look at the lending side of it- Mm-hmm if you don't have a structure on the property, it's gonna be a lot harder to get that capital- Totally. Yeah … and make that investment.

Christian: [55:11] Yep.

Amanda: [55:11] Do I think it is super cool? Absolutely, but when I look at the utility side of bringing in utilities- Mm-hmm … that's where I start to have questions.

Christian: [55:19] Yep.

Amanda: [55:19] See, this, this-

Christian: [55:20] Does the, I said- This is, well, this is what, this is my whole thing. It has to have sewer, it has to have water, it has to have power all already on site to a structure that's already there. Then you build out all the remaining things after that.

Amanda: [55:32] See, that I love because it allows you then-

Christian: [55:35] Yeah, you get a loan on it- Right … and then you do all the rehab, and you got something worth- And you're

Amanda: [55:38] selling off these cabins?

Christian: [55:40] Potentially, you know, condo-ing them off, like we do with dadus.

Amanda: [55:42] O-

Christian: [55:42] okay. Um, sell off maybe two or three to basically- Pay for the

Amanda: [55:46] others … Speaker: offset- Yeah … offset everything else. Keep the other ones as rentals, short-term, mid-term, long-term. And then you would just have a simple HOA- Yeah … servicing them all- Yeah so they maintain the same rules. Mm-hmm. I love this idea. I'm here for it. I wonder what the true- I wonder what the true- Thought she caught me … build-out costs w- are, because- No idea … then are we gonna have a property manager on site, or how does that work? Who's the cleaning team? Mm. Are they facilitating that? Mm-hmm. Does somebody have to sell- Yeah … if you've sold them off? What are the rules against this? And I was actually just listening to a podcast about this-

Christian: [56:15] Mm. Mm … Amanda: with Cathy Feckey. Yeah. Mm.

Amanda: [56:17] Okay. On the market. Yeah. Yeah. And she was saying that depending on the modeling, they had invested in one, and the numbers weren't working, so everyone kind of sold at once. Mm-hmm. How would that affect your pro- Mm. Like, how is that gonna affect it if- Yeah … people have the opportunity to sell off? So I don't know- How that factors in, I'm not wise in that space, but I think it could be super cool. I think there's a really cool one, as an example, out near Wenatchee- Mm … in wine country.

Shannon: [56:44] Oh, okay. Cool.

Amanda: [56:45] Bee caves or something like that. Oh. And I don't think they're separate ownership, but I think what they did was super cool, because it's a unique destination- Mm-hmm … now that they've done these independent structures on a resort-style atmosphere, where you get- Cool … that same vibe, that same feeling. Yeah. You know, I love that, because if you're having a wedding or an event there- Yeah. That's what we were thinking.

Christian: [57:04] The

Amanda: [57:04] whole thing is- Yeah, I, I- … that's it, yeah … absolutely love that idea. I wonder, then, you ha- probably have a bed and breakfast tax. But it-

Christian: [57:12] I don't k- it'll depend.

Amanda: [57:12] I know. This is what we

Shannon: [57:13] wanna find out.

Amanda: [57:14] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because you're gonna get, y- I'm sure b- I wonder what qualifies that as a bed and breakfast instead of a short-term rental or a vacation home, and maybe then- Yeah … it's even more unique. Could

Christian: [57:23] be more advantageous as well.

Amanda: [57:24] Yeah. Because it, like, San Juan Island's dream to have- Mm-hmm … a short-term rental- Mm-hmm out there, but they're, they're already capped for permits- Yeah … and they, you don't have the same visibility into how long that wait list is. So-

Christian: [57:36] Mm-hmm … Amanda: you could buy a property there, you s- sit on it forever. But if you bought- Maybe a actual bed and breakfast-

Amanda: [57:42] And you- … Speaker: you can skirt those rules a little bit, 'cause it's actually a bed and breakfast. Right. And then you add all the other s- things on after. Yeah.

Christian: [57:49] Hmm. Hmm. This is the beauty of being creative

Shannon: [57:51] in the real estate. This is why I didn't wanna get you two together, because- I know, she just keeps stopping us … he comes up with these things, and I'm like, "No, no, we have too many, we're doing a lot of things." I,

Amanda: [57:58] Christian, I love this idea. I know. I do, because there's another one in Whidbey Island that has-

Shannon: [58:04] See? See, I gotta take- I've been

Amanda: [58:04] looking at these, because

Shannon: [58:05] I'm getting- I take my question back. No, I'm just kidding I think

Christian: [58:07] it's such a cool thing. Well, there's, and there's another one near Mount Rainier that I was looking at, that you could do something like that with. Yeah.

Amanda: [58:12] Yeah. And

Shannon: [58:12] I was like, "Gee-" Well, and some people just resell them. Once they create this- Yeah … they resell the whole package-

Christian: [58:16] Yeah … Shannon: to somebody else.

Amanda: [58:17] And- That is the whole business that I really wish- I could have more, a little more time for it. Because if you can set up- Mm-hmm … this is the hack. Yeah. Mm-hmm. If you can take a derelict property in a vacation destination, most people that are buying there are buying for the cashflow, turnkey property management company. Mm-hmm. If you have the bandwidth to go in-

Christian: [58:38] And build that whole

Amanda: [58:39] thing out … and burr it out-

Christian: [58:40] Yeah.

Amanda: [58:40] Yep … get it designed- Yep … get it stocked and turn it, that's what we did with our Gatlinburg property, and we were able to 2X our purchase price in- Wow 16 months. Amazing. Because nobody there is going to go in and d- flip-

Christian: [58:52] Yeah … Amanda: a vacation rental property. Yeah. I wanted to do this in Tahoe, but my husband has a job.

Shannon: [59:02] Um. He's

Amanda: [59:03] scared. How so? So w- I, that was, like, my big dream before the pandemic hit- Yeah … is because I'm seeing all of these beautiful, bigger homes- Mm-hmm that people can't, uh, who live in the community can't come in and afford- Mm-hmm Mm-hmm … to do these rehabs to. Mm-hmm. But there is such a need for some of these older homes to get a little bit of love- Yep … be brought current, be put back in the market instead of sitting shuttered and boarded up.

Christian: [59:25] Yeah.

Amanda: [59:25] You know, th- there's some for years, you can just tell by how the snow walls go in front of them- Mm-hmm and then the pine needles- Mm-hmm … that just sit there year after year after year- Yep … 'cause they need repairs. They've been passed down through families- Mm-hmm … but people don't have the resources to make it happen.

Christian: [59:40] Yeah, yeah.

Amanda: [59:41] There's- Interesting. Love this So turnkey Airbnb

Christian: [59:44] Flipping it.

Amanda: [59:44] Yeah. Flipping, yeah. If you set it up- Incredible … you get great reviews, you have the occupancy rate and the numbers, I think that is a cool business.

Shannon: [59:52] Mm-hmm.

Christian: [59:52] That we do not have time for. Yeah. But I would love to do.

Shannon: [59:55] Stay focused. Stay

Amanda: [59:56] fo- I know. I, I… 'Cause you, it's like the fun stuff, the design- Yeah … make it cool- Yeah, yeah. Yeah and then you're out. Yeah. Like, I set it up, we're good. Yeah. Let's go. I love

Shannon: [1:00:03] that.

Christian: [1:00:03] Yeah. All right. You have any last questions, Shannon?

Shannon: [1:00:06] No, that was my last, that was my

Amanda: [1:00:07] last- Okay. That was a hard one … trick question, and- 'Cause- … Christian and I- Yeah … fell for

Christian: [1:00:09] it. I know. Yeah. We totally fell for that, and we had a lot of fun with it- Yeah I think. Yeah. This is the stuff that when you get into real estate investing, when you start to build your tribe of friends that are also in this, this is the kind of conversations you have. It's super fun. You get to just go off on crazy ideas and go, "Man, but then you could do this, and then you could do that, then you could do this." And, like, we have the opportunity, if we choose, to do something crazy like this. Mm. And maybe even be really successful at it. Yeah. Like, you don't know. Like, we know how to run the numbers, and this is the beauty of investing. You can have fun. You can build a community, and you don't have to have a 9:00 to 5:00 normal job. You can do other stuff with real estate. So that's the beauty of real estate. Amanda, thank you for sharing all of your amazing knowledge. You are insane to have built all of that you've done, like- Oh … all 473 short-term rentals that you have. She's like, "What the hell are you saying?"

Amanda: [1:01:06] No, I, I was just like, "I hope my husband doesn't listen to this."

Christian: [1:01:11] The last part we'll cut out for you.

Shannon: [1:01:12] Great, great.

Christian: [1:01:14] Um, so yes, thank you so much for sharing everything that you did today. I learned a ton. This was all news to me- Yeah, me

Shannon: [1:01:20] too … Speaker: and yeah. Amanda, how can people reach out to you if they want to, one, like, see your properties? Maybe they want to- Come back … rent one- or they want to find out more about what you do?

Amanda: [1:01:28] Yeah. I'm, I shuttered my vacation rental design business, because I rather just buy them.

Christian: [1:01:33] And do it yourself.

Amanda: [1:01:34] Yeah. Yeah. I just get, I get too FOMO. I'm like- Yeah … "You know what? I should've bought this one." Yep. Uh, so now it's just Instagram @A-D-M-A-N-D-U-H, admanduh. I should update that handle at some point. Say it

Christian: [1:01:46] one more time.

Amanda: [1:01:47] Uh, @A-D-M-A-N-D-U-H. Yep. A really, really mature- Amanduh … handle. Yeah. Really mature. Um, yeah, so I'm on social. I'm finishing up my duplex in Seattle, and starting to furnish that, and then these guys have talked me into the possibility of building a DADU, so exploring that. Yeah. And hopefully another project here in the next 60 days, so.

Christian: [1:02:11] Sweet.

Amanda: [1:02:11] Thank you guys so much- Awesome … for having me on. Of course. I'm always inspired by all of your projects, and so grateful to have another woman in the space. Yes. I mean- Totally. Yeah … it's, rarely do you have somebody, not rarely, I'm grateful that, uh, this community is growing, and there's so many of us- Dealing and here.

Christian: [1:02:31] Yeah.

Shannon: [1:02:31] Yes.

Amanda: [1:02:31] Here. It's

Shannon: [1:02:32] so fun. It's

Christian: [1:02:32] amazing. This is why I think I'm gonna have Shannon on a lot more. She has been in this business with me since, I mean, really the beginning. Mm-hmm. Almost 20 years at this point, and she's been behind the scenes at the Awesome Nossum Group forever, always doing a ton, always making me look good. Never taking any of the spotlight, and I want to share that spotlight, so I'm gonna have her on this podcast- Oh, thank you … more and more. She is amazing. I am so thankful- I do tell you what

Shannon: [1:02:58] questions to ask anyway- Yes … so I might as well just ask

Christian: [1:03:00] them. Exactly. She does. She writes the scripts. I just read them. It's really not hard for me. You guys

Amanda: [1:03:05] are the dream team. Yeah.

Shannon: [1:03:07] Yeah.

Christian: [1:03:07] Yeah, so if you are in the market to buy a house in the Seattle, Greater Seattle area, and you do wanna chat, I am a real estate agent at the Awesome Nossum Group at Wilson Realty Exchange, Inc. So happy to chat with you. You can always schedule a time with me. Go to AwesomeNossumGroup.com/schedule. We can set up a quick Zoom call one-on-one and make that happen. So that's it for this episode of the Awesome in Seattle podcast. Again, thank you, Amanda. Shannon, thank you so much, and, uh, we'll see you in two weeks. Bye.