Behind The Walls- Navigating The Secrets Of Home Inspections

Christian: [0:03] And welcome to another episode of the Awesome in Seattle podcast. This is your host, Christian Nossum, of the Awesome Nossum Group at Wilson Realty Exchange, Inc. We are a group of Seattle area real estate agents. Now, today we are talking all about home inspections, and I have a special guest with me, an actual home inspector.

Brennan: [0:21] That's me.

Christian: [0:22] Brennan Coyle from Workhorse Home Inspection. Brennan is a home inspector here in the Seattle area, general Seattle area, and we use him to inspect homes. It's pretty straightforward process, but we're gonna go all about that and really dive deep, and I got some good questions, including a really, really funny one, which is the weirdest thing he's ever seen, which he told me just a minute ago, and it's, it's pretty crazy. So you definitely wanna stick around till the end for that, 'cause it's gonna be the last question I ask. So before we get started, I have to get on my soapbox and say this to all of those buyers out there, and that is one thing. Always, always, always see an inspection report before you buy a house, before you make an offer on a house, whether you're the one hiring this, the inspector to go out there and do it, or whether the seller is procuring an inspection and giving it to you. Always look at one before you actually buy a house. Don't buy a house without an inspection.

Brennan: [1:19] I couldn't agree more.

Christian: [1:20] Yes. I mean, I- And not just because you get paid- … it's my career, but … but it's also super important for buyers to do this. Very. You need to understand what it is you're buying and what defects there are potentially.

Brennan: [1:31] Yeah, and what you're, you're willing to live with and- What's kinda a deal breaker for you?

Christian: [1:36] Exactly. So- Exactly. So Brandon, thank you so much for being here. I've been on probably a few thousand inspections at this point in my career, doing this for almost 20 years, and I always learn something from every single one. There's so much to know about houses.

Brennan: [1:51] I've, I learn something on just about every inspection. Yeah. There's, there's always gonna be something new, something weird. You ask yourself the question why a lot. Yes. Like, why, why is this happening? And

Christian: [2:01] common sense just doesn't apply a

Brennan: [2:02] lot of times. Why did they do that?

Christian: [2:04] Yes.

Brennan: [2:04] Yeah. Occasionally there's stuff that just doesn't have answers, but usually- Mm-hmm … we can get to the bottom of it.

Christian: [2:08] Yes, yes. It's, uh, it is funny to see what people do with their houses.

Brennan: [2:13] People can get a little wild. People can get a little creat- maybe creative's a better way to put it.

Christian: [2:18] Maybe creative, yes.

Brennan: [2:19] They can get creative with it.

Christian: [2:20] So let's go over the background of an inspector. What is it that makes an inspector certified, and how does that process work and what all is involved?

Brennan: [2:28] The certification part is, it, it's, I wanna say, fairly straightforward. There is some schooling requirements. You have to pass some national exams, some state exams to kinda get credentialed and be licensed with the state. But I think what really separates the I just took school and the I've lived a life of construction inspector is the construction background-

Christian: [2:48] Mm-hmm … Brennan: and really having some of that hands-on knowledge of how things go together. Yeah.

Brennan: [2:52] And that said, the, the bookwork can also crumple some people. I've, there's many people in my class that it just, it's too much. Yeah. There's a lot of technical data in there. Oh, yeah. So we're

Christian: [3:02] kind of- I could see that … Brennan: forced to learn a little bit about a lot. Mm-hmm. It's kinda, it's like the, um, primary care physician. Mm-hmm.

Brennan: [3:09] Yeah. They're there to kind of assess the situation, diagnose it, and then suggest a specialist if anything's really going wrong.

Christian: [3:16] Makes sense. So what all does a home inspection cover?

Brennan: [3:20] I wanna say pretty much everything. Anything that we can get to, you know, we'll go over the roof, the foundation, the attic, the crawl spaces, look through the electrical panel, check a bunch of outlets, kinda try and figure out what kind of wiring's in the walls. It, it really is all-encompassing of all the major systems of the home.

Christian: [3:37] Mm-hmm.

Brennan: [3:38] We do have our limitations with what we can access. If there's stuff in the way, if it is in the wall, we can't really see it, but most of us really try and do a good job and kinda get to every little nook and cranny that we can, so- Yeah you get a well-informed report at the end.

Christian: [3:51] W- I guess a follow-up question to that would be what is not included in an inspection that maybe people assume is? What's not included?

Brennan: [3:58] I think the biggest thing that I feel like is not included sometimes is, is the hidden stuff. Mm-hmm. Like, you'll see a little bit of moisture on a wall, and they'll want you to dive in deeper.

Christian: [4:08] Mm-hmm.

Brennan: [4:08] And you're like, "I, I can't. We don't own the house. It's not our house." Yeah. "I'm not a contractor here to fix it." So s- I think for me, I feel like mainly the stuff that's not covered is the really diving into, like, the root of a problem.

Christian: [4:19] Mm-hmm. ' Brennan: Cause we're just… we're not allowed to damage property. Yeah, you can't cut into walls. You can't do- Yeah … any of those types of things where you can only visually see what you can see, and that's what you're assessing.

Brennan: [4:29] Y- yeah, and even to that degree, you know, it's, some inspectors do, some inspectors don't, but even, you know, when valves are on or off, if the water's shut off to the house, if a breaker's shut off-

Christian: [4:39] Mm-hmm

Brennan: [4:39] you wanna turn it on and figure out why, but sometimes there might be a reason. There's, yeah. You turn the water on-

Christian: [4:44] And

Brennan: [4:44] there's a leak … and then there's a leak that they were trying to fix, so- Yep … you kinda, you know, we have to protect ourselves a little bit and also the property owner, so.

Christian: [4:51] Well, and that kinda falls on your agent as well to find out, "Hey, just making sure, is everything on?"

Brennan: [4:56] Yeah.

Christian: [4:57] If- Absolutely … is there for some reason the water's not on. I actually was at an inspection earlier today, water was not on. And we knew that going in, though, so we weren't expecting to do it, 'cause there were some issues with that house, and we knew it. So-

Brennan: [5:08] That's, yeah, that's… I was at one last week. It was turned off. The house had been vacant. Mm-hmm. They didn't pay the bill.

Christian: [5:14] Oh, wow.

Brennan: [5:14] And it was shut off. And there's a tag that says minimum $200 fine. I was like- I- "Does anybody want to adopt this fine- … so I can turn that on? Or should we call somebody?" But yeah, so we didn't. I just came back and re-inspected it later.

Christian: [5:26] Yeah, yeah. Not a

Brennan: [5:27] huge deal. There's usually some kind of workaround that we can figure out.

Christian: [5:30] Yep, yep. So explain to people the different type of home inspections. So for the ones that come to mind are a seller procured, a pre-inspection, and a kinda standard inspection. Do you wanna explain what the differences are between those? Are there even differences?

Brennan: [5:45] Yeah. I mean, in some regard they're all exactly the same. Mm-hmm. As an inspector, we go there, we do the same inspection every time, or you should.

Christian: [5:53] Mm-hmm.

Brennan: [5:54] You're, you're checking all the same stuff. Yeah. Really the difference lies in, you know, the seller procured inspection is somebody that wants to list their house. These got really popular throughout the pandemic- Yeah … because having inspectors and people there with COVID was not an option. So they- Yeah … they really gained popularity through that. But that's just a way for a seller, I… to me, I feel like, to identify anything that they would like to fix or give everybody kind of a, a clean slate and the same view of the property when they're making their offers. I personally, I love to do them 'cause they're usually quiet and peaceful.

Christian: [6:24] Exactly, yeah.

Brennan: [6:24] But, uh, also I think it's a powerful tool for a seller. Then your buyer inspections, you know, same exact inspection. There's, for me, there's zero difference. Mm-hmm. I do the exact same thing every time. I'm just doing it for a buyer, and that's, those are typically, you know, people that are under contract, already love the house- Mm-hmm looking to make an offer. They get their little contingency window, and they just want to reassure themselves there's nothing hiding that's- Yeah, exactly … Speaker: that's too much. Yeah. And then the other one, these ones get called everything. It's, it's a pre-inspection, it's a verbal, it's a consultation. Mm-hmm. For insurance purposes, it's a consultation. Oh. Yes. And it's essentially the same exact inspection, but it's usually, I usually do them pre-offer. Say you're looking at a bunch of different houses. You're not, you haven't narrowed in.

Christian: [7:09] Mm-hmm.

Brennan: [7:10] You wanna save a little bit of money, but you want- A good shake down of the house-

Christian: [7:14] Yep … Brennan: prior to making your offer so you kinda know where you're gonna land. They go a little bit quicker 'cause I'm not kinda, I'm not taking all the pictures and documenting everything. Yeah. You're not writing down notes or anything.

Brennan: [7:23] Yeah, I'm not taking all the notes. It's just verbal.

Christian: [7:25] Yeah.

Brennan: [7:25] Yep. I do the same inspection, and then at the end we just do a verbal walkthrough. I point at stuff. I'm always happy to talk kind of as long as you want. I don't mind chatting with people about stuff.

Christian: [7:35] Mm-hmm.

Brennan: [7:35] And then you can at least, prior to making your offer, you can at least have a good idea of anything that would be of significance to you. Like, "Hey, it needs a new roof." Mm-hmm. "It's gonna be $30,000." "Okay. I know that going in." Yep. "I still want to make said offer."

Christian: [7:49] Yep. One thing that I forgot to bring up, but I wanna bring up now, what about, like, sewer lines? Is that something that you inspect, or is that someone else?

Brennan: [7:57] I don't do it currently. Mm-hmm. It's, uh, actually a service that I'm working on training in to provide. Cool. Mostly just to be able to offer both at the same time. Mm-hmm. 'Cause it is, I feel like, your sewer line inspection, or your sewer scope, or whatever you wanna call it is- Equally as important as a home inspection. Yeah,

Christian: [8:12] I agree at this point, yeah.

Brennan: [8:14] It is a major component that it's, it's easy for them to inspect. It goes quick.

Christian: [8:19] Yeah.

Brennan: [8:19] And it can save you from, you know, tens of thousands of dollars if something's gone wrong.

Christian: [8:23] Mm-hmm.

Brennan: [8:24] I feel like in most cases, the reports that I see from sewer scopes, a lot of times they're good. Yeah. But when they're bad, depending on where it's at, it can really, it can really become an issue. Yeah. So I, I recommend a home inspection and a sewer scope even though I'm not doing them currently.

Christian: [8:38] Yeah. Um- So why don't you explain what exactly a sewer scope is so people understand that difference?

Brennan: [8:42] A sewer scope, it's, it's pretty straightforward. It is, yeah. There's… In your house, you have all your sewer lines. They come into one main line that will go under your house and out to the street and connect to your city main. You as a homeowner are responsible from your house to the city main.

Christian: [8:57] Mm-hmm.

Brennan: [8:58] So they just, they have a camera on a cable, and you stick the camera down there. It films a video, and then you can see if there's any, any breaks, any offsets, if it's old terracotta pipe and it's caved in- Mm or root intrusion, and kinda get an idea of where that line goes. So, you know, in some cases if it goes underneath a driveway and a patio and a, a rockery and a retaining wall, that's gonna be substantially more expensive if there- Yes … is any issues versus if it just goes through a little piece of lawn that-

Christian: [9:24] Mm-hmm

Brennan: [9:25] you can easily dig up and get to for any- Yep … repairs.

Christian: [9:27] Or if it's 20 feet deep versus three feet deep.

Brennan: [9:30] Exactly.

Christian: [9:30] Yeah. Yeah. Which I've seen all. Yeah.

Brennan: [9:32] They're all out there.

Christian: [9:33] They are, yeah.

Brennan: [9:34] Some of them even go uphill surprisingly.

Christian: [9:35] Yeah, which is weird, but…

Brennan: [9:37] Yeah, it works.

Christian: [9:38] All right. So how does a home inspection help a buyer?

Brennan: [9:41] I mean, uh, first and foremost it gives you a comprehensive understanding of what you're getting into, if there is any major defects, if there's not, if, you know, maybe it's just old systems, knob-and-tube wiring, galvanized plumbing, stuff like that, just stuff that you need to know and be prepared for going into purchasing a home. That you're gonna have to budget

Christian: [9:59] for over the next five, 10, 15 years.

Brennan: [10:01] And then-

Christian: [10:01] Yeah … Brennan: now that we're back to a civilized market, I think for you it really helps, and you guys end up with, like, some negotiating power- Yeah … or at least a little bit of leverage that I think can really help a buyer- Yep … in a lot of situations. Yeah. If the market is not competitive, I guess the difference between a pre-inspection and a more standard inspection is a pre-inspection is one that you make before you make your offer because it's a competitive situation. So you're trying to eliminate your inspection contingency when you make an offer. So you're doing it ahead of time, that way you don't have to make your offer contingent upon it. A normal inspection is when you make an offer, you have not done an inspection yet, you make the offer, and you include a five… It's a negotiable timeframe, but it's generally around five days-ish, seven days-ish, three days sometimes if it's tight. But you have that timeframe to potentially back out if you wanted to. If you find something wrong or even if you just change your mind, you don't even have to technically get an inspection done. You can just use it as a get out of jail free card. It's kinda crazy.

Brennan: [11:03] It's not bad to have in your pocket.

Christian: [11:05] It isn't, yeah. So that's why, though, sellers want to see that contingency removed from any offer if they're able to. Oh, yeah. But if it's at all competitive, they wanna see that gone. But if it's not competitive and you're the only offer, you might be able to keep that contingency in there. And if you do find things wrong, that's where the buyer gets to negotiate with the seller, and you can say, "Hey, Brandon said that it needs a new roof, and the electrical has some issues, and the new roof and the electrical, we think it's gonna cost somewhere around, in total, $10,000." Then you can go back to the seller and try to either get them to repair it, negotiate the price down, or what I always recommend, number one, is to get a credit from the seller for that amount so that you can hire who you want to get that work done, and you know they did it the right way.

Brennan: [11:58] I agree with that 100%. Yeah. I was gonna try and foot note the seller repair thing.

Christian: [12:02] Mm-hmm.

Brennan: [12:04] It, it's a nice gesture- Mm-hmm … that they would be willing to do the repair. Yeah. The unfortunate thing is, in most cases, they're just trying to get it done-

Christian: [12:11] Yeah … Brennan: for- They don't necessarily

Brennan: [12:13] care how it gets done … the cheapest they can. As long as it- Yeah it's done and it passes-

Christian: [12:16] Mm-hmm … Brennan: go about your day. Yep.

Brennan: [12:18] Versus when you have control over that, and it can get done how you would like to do it-

Christian: [12:21] Exactly … Brennan: since you are the one buying the house. Yeah, yeah. You wanna… It's generally more advised for you to pick who's doing the work.

Brennan: [12:28] Absolutely.

Christian: [12:29] Yeah. And then also, if there's a warranty, sometimes those don't, those don't transfer to the next buyer, and it might only be with that one seller who had it, and they only own the house for another two weeks, so that warranty doesn't really mean a hell of a lot.

Brennan: [12:41] Yeah, it doesn't.

Christian: [12:42] Yeah. So- Doesn't

Brennan: [12:43] really help you out

Christian: [12:43] in that scenario. So if you're the one that's paying for it, and you're choosing who it is and they have a warranty, now you're good. What are some of the most common things that you find during a home inspection?

Brennan: [12:53] Uh, the most common is… Honestly, they're, they're small defects. Yeah. It's just everyday maintenance- Mm … deferred maintenance- Mm-hmm … uh, paint, caulking, you know, fail… Some bigger, bigger-ish things, like failed window seals- Mm … so you have some fogging.

Christian: [13:07] Yep.

Brennan: [13:08] Which is… it's primarily a cosmetic thing, but- Yeah. That kind of stuff, and then I think second to that is just old systems. Mm-hmm. You know, we have a lot of old homes, so there is… I do have to have the talk about knob-and-tube wiring- Yep … and galvanized plumbing- Mm … and buried oil tanks. Mm-hmm. I, I have to go over that quite a bit, and it's-

Christian: [13:24] Why don't you do that right now? Uh. What is knob-and-tube wiring?

Brennan: [13:28] Knob… Say this stuff too much. God. Knob-and-tube wiring

Christian: [13:33] is- You can take a nap while you say it. I mean, it- I'm sure you can handle that … Brennan: it's, it's the invention of electricity, basically. Yes. That was our first system that- Yeah … we used to distribute electricity. Pretty outdated.

Brennan: [13:42] Inherently, that's the biggest issue, is- Mm-hmm … it's old, and insurance companies don't love it.

Christian: [13:47] Yep. It does… If you have knob and tube in your home, it can be difficult to get home insurance. Some insurance companies just flat out will not insure- Yeah … your home. Others have no problem with it, so you just have to find the one that doesn't have a problem with it.

Brennan: [13:59] And then the, the caveat I always have to try to explain is inherently it's not a bad system.

Christian: [14:03] Mm-hmm.

Brennan: [14:03] It's just getting old.

Christian: [14:05] Mm-hmm.

Brennan: [14:05] So it can deteriorate over time. And what really causes the problems is in the old days, we didn't need that much electricity. Yeah. Now we need a lot more electricity.

Christian: [14:13] Mm-hmm.

Brennan: [14:14] So as we add circuits and people start tampering with it and tying into it, we didn't have enough insulation in the attic, so then we insulated our attic, but it buried this knob-and-tube wiring.

Christian: [14:23] Mm-hmm.

Brennan: [14:23] So it can't disperse the heat. That's where it kinda becomes- Yeah … a, a safety concern or a fire concern. But-

Christian: [14:28] Mm-hmm … Brennan: I see knob-and-tube wiring in, I don't know, 50% of the old homes. Yeah. Um, whether it's just in the walls, maybe some in the attic. Mm-hmm.

Brennan: [14:36] And I like to let people know, as much as it is a fire safety concern- It's not like it's rampantly burning down houses every day.

Christian: [14:43] No,

Brennan: [14:44] no. So,

Christian: [14:44] yeah,

Brennan: [14:45] you can… We all have to live to our own degree of safety.

Christian: [14:48] Yeah.

Brennan: [14:48] Some people can't handle it, other people can overlook it and- You

Christian: [14:51] gotta also realize it's probably been there for 80 to 100 years already, or 50 years- Yeah … or however, whenever the house was built.

Brennan: [14:58] And the skill required to install that type of wiring, if you've ever seen this stuff, it, it looks like a pain to install. Yes,

Christian: [15:04] it does.

Brennan: [15:05] It was, like, true craftsmen- Yeah … of the time putting- Yeah … this stuff in. So typically, as long as it hasn't been messed with- Mm-hmm … if it was done right- Yeah … then it, it, still doing its job.

Christian: [15:13] All right, let's talk about galvanized steel pipes.

Brennan: [15:16] Galvanized, it's, that's a short conversation. It, it's a steel pipe that is-

Christian: [15:20] And this is the water pipes in your house. Yeah. The, the water that is going to the faucet.

Brennan: [15:25] So yeah, these are our, your plumbing supply lines- Mm-hmm … that are providing water to all your fixtures. We u- it was great pipe. We used it for a long period. It's j- we stopped using it mid to late '70s, and at that point, all of it is about 50 years old. Yep. And the deal with it is it's steel, so since it's steel full of water, it rusts over time. Mm-hmm. And it slowly rusts and just kinda closes up like an artery.

Christian: [15:48] Yeah, gets smaller, smaller, smaller, yep.

Brennan: [15:49] It'll start to leak.

Christian: [15:50] Mm-hmm.

Brennan: [15:51] R- you'll start noticing, you'll see brown or discolored water. You'll have low flow at a faucet. But the thing is with it, it's, it's never a if I need to replace it, it's just a when.

Christian: [16:00] Yeah. Like, it's-

Brennan: [16:00] You're

Christian: [16:00] going to replace

Brennan: [16:01] it at some point … at some point it's gonna fail- Yep … and you're gonna need to do it. I always recommend doing it in advance. Mm-hmm. You save yourself the trouble of, of water damage.

Christian: [16:08] Having to, yeah, exactly.

Brennan: [16:09] So

Christian: [16:09] it's- A, a good tip that I learned from a old inspector years and years ago when I first started, he said, "Hey, if you wanna test the water pressure and see how good it is, even if you have regular plumbing or galvanized steel or PEX or whatever, what you do is you turn on the tub, you turn on the faucet in the bathroom, and you flush the toilet." Yeah. When you flush that toilet, if all the water pressure goes and just dies off-

Brennan: [16:31] Yeah. You probably- … you

Christian: [16:32] probably need to re-plumb … Brennan: they call it a flow test. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's just 'cause you're demanding a lot out of the system- Mm-hmm … at once, and if it can't get through that pipe- Mm-hmm … then it, stuff starts to trickle. Yep.

Brennan: [16:42] Some bad cases, you'll know as soon as you turn the faucet on. Yeah, exactly. And it's just a little stream.

Christian: [16:45] Just, yep. Yep. Um- All right, uh, the other thing you mentioned were oil tanks Why would there be an oil tank at a house?

Brennan: [16:52] Oil tanks, that was prior to using natural gas for furnaces- Mm-hmm … and heating our home.

Christian: [16:56] Mm-hmm.

Brennan: [16:57] If it wasn't electric, it was gonna be burning fuel oil.

Christian: [17:00] Mm-hmm.

Brennan: [17:00] Here in the Northwest, we decided we like to bury them a lot. They did this all over the country, but like-

Christian: [17:05] Yeah … Brennan: I feel like specifically in the Northwest, there's not a lot of above ground oil tanks. Yep. So they would just bury a big tank in the yard somewhere, fill it with oil. They're like, what? 300 to 500 gallons.

Brennan: [17:15] Yeah, they're huge.

Christian: [17:15] They're massive.

Brennan: [17:16] Um-

Christian: [17:16] Yeah … Brennan: uh, we, I mean, it's still operating. Yeah. There- No … I see oil furnaces all the time. Yep. I saw one the other day that was installed in 1971. Wow.

Brennan: [17:25] So they do their job, the parts are simple. Yep. People still maintain them. The only issue with those is when they get abandoned, if people don't decommission it properly, where they drain the oil, fill it full of an like an absorbent sand type material-

Christian: [17:39] Mm-hmm

Brennan: [17:39] it has the potential, if it's still holding 100 gallons of oil and it rusts out and leaches into the yard-

Christian: [17:44] Yep … Brennan: if for some reason you notice it or somebody notices that there's oil in the soil- Mm-hmm … that wasn't supposed to rhyme, but it did. Yeah. You can get stuck with the cleanup and the- Yeah remediation of all of that, which can get- Very expensive … bit, yeah. Yeah. Extremely expensive when you start excavating soil and- Yep … Brennan: and dealing with all that. So there is, um, a company called Philco- Mm-hmm … that takes records. They have records dating back to, like, '96, so- Hmm … if there's an oil tank, just kinda do the best homework you can. Sometimes the sellers have a decommissioning certificate. Yep.

Brennan: [18:15] They used to have PLEA insurance. I don't know if that's- I think

Christian: [18:17] they got rid of it, yeah. I don't know why,

Brennan: [18:18] but- I know you can't get it anymore, but I- But

Christian: [18:20] you can transfer it if they had it before, I believe.

Brennan: [18:24] Exactly. It's

Christian: [18:25] transferable. Yeah.

Brennan: [18:25] But I was just told the other day that somebody said that stopped. Oh, really? I haven't looked into it. Interesting. Yeah, I

Christian: [18:31] didn't know that. So I, I gotta dig into that. Me either. Yeah. What about rodents? 'Cause I feel like, tell me your experience, but I feel like 75% of the homes that are inspected have some sort of rodent activity, whether it's previous or current. Is that about as much as you're seeing it?

Brennan: [18:46] Yeah. Yeah. I'd, I'd, I'd back you up on that- Yeah … figure.

Christian: [18:48] And I feel like everyone is shocked by that when they realize that that's the case.

Brennan: [18:52] Yeah, which, which becomes difficult to tell people- Yeah … 'cause we see it every day, and you're like- Exactly … "Yeah, it's just, it is what it is."

Christian: [18:57] I literally just bought a house with a dead rat in the attic. Yeah.

Brennan: [18:59] It, it, it happens. Um, yeah, they're just… I mean, we live in the Northwest. Yeah. It's a tempered climate. It's, there's tons of foliage. It's easy for them to thrive and survive, and-

Christian: [19:11] Yeah, and they jump off the tree branches onto the roof.

Brennan: [19:13] Yeah, and sometimes- Somehow get in … like, today it was a, it was a gorgeous house, and I wasn't finding anything and really didn't think the attic was gonna be of any concern. Mm-hmm. And then got up there, and it was just a rodent house. I was like, "How?" There's not even big trees around, but-

Christian: [19:28] Weird … Brennan: they'll, they'll find their way. They'll find their way. Yeah. Yeah. If there's a little hole and it's warm, they'll, they'll find a way. What is it? A, a rat only needs, like, a dime-sized hole- Yeah and they can fit through it. Um, like,

Brennan: [19:38] that, I had, uh- 'Cause

Christian: [19:38] I think that's how big their skull is, and the rest of their body can, like, suck

Brennan: [19:41] in. There was a, uh, pest inspector that just told me, he's like, "Just watch the song at the end of Ratatouille, and that'll tell you everything you need to know about rodents -, rodents, but- Now I need to

Christian: [19:49] re-watch that movie. Yeah, I

Brennan: [19:49] haven't seen it in ages. But he's like, "Yeah, it tells you how high they jump and- Cool … what they can fit through, and all this stuff, so.

Christian: [19:55] Crazy.

Brennan: [19:56] Yeah, I'll have to re-watch that as well.

Christian: [19:57] Yeah. We'll add the clip at the end. No, I'm not, we're not gonna add the clip. That'd be- We don't have the r- we don't have the rights for that. Yeah, we can't. We can't do that. YouTube would shut us down. What about looking for mold or water damage or anything water-related in a house? How does that work on your end as an inspector?

Brennan: [20:15] I mean, that's our biggest enemy here in the northwest- Yeah … is moisture. We get a ton of rain.

Christian: [20:18] Mm-hmm.

Brennan: [20:19] But even worse than rodents, it will really find any place to get into your home. It

Christian: [20:23] really will. Yeah. It'll- In the oddest place. Sometimes water will actually go up.

Brennan: [20:26] Yeah. Like it'll- It's

Christian: [20:27] weird.

Brennan: [20:27] It, it, it'll find a way- Yeah … to get back down to Mother Earth- Yeah … for sure. I mean, it all starts visual. You know, that's, the whole inspection starts there, but with moisture especially, you just start looking for clues. Like, is there a little wood rot? Is there something that would lead you to think that maybe moisture's getting in there? And then if you, if you do start to see some signs or symptoms, say, on an interior wall in a basement- Mm-hmm … finished basement, hey, there's a little peeling paint down at the bottom. You can't just say, "This is wet. This is moisture damage." You have to kind of further evaluate it- Yeah … and confirm. So we use, you know, we have a thermal camera, which helps us. Cool. It just detects temperature. But- If there's cold water coming in from outside, it'll show a cool spot, and it can- Mm … kind of lead you to confirm it with your moisture meter.

Christian: [21:08] Yep.

Brennan: [21:08] In which case, then you, you at least know, hey, there is a moisture problem here. Let's try and figure out why. Mm-hmm. So it's, it's a tricky one to really track down. I mean- Yeah … you can, sometimes when it really gets in there, you can, you can find the root cause quick. Other times, people have, you have to get a contractor out to kind of start- Yeah digging around. But-

Christian: [21:26] Yeah. I mean, I've seen it where the leak was, you know, 20, 30 feet away, and the water just followed, like, a beam and then dropped in some other spot, and you're like- Yeah … how did it get h- that's crazy-

Brennan: [21:37] Yeah. Really … that it

Christian: [21:37] did that. Okay.

Brennan: [21:38] There, there's a leak in the ceiling here, but really it starts, like- It's way over there 50 feet that way.

Christian: [21:42] Yeah, yeah. That kind of stuff happens.

Brennan: [21:44] It does, uh, far too frequently in our state. Yes. By, by saying that, a lot of the stuff we're talking about- You can fix it … the old materials, we see it a lot.

Christian: [21:52] Yep.

Brennan: [21:53] The other stuff, I mean, the catastrophic stuff is rare.

Christian: [21:55] Yes. Very rare.

Brennan: [21:57] It's, most of it is fix it and forget about it. Routine maintenance. Yep. The, the odds of finding, like- Slam dunks … massive things, just tear down houses, is relatively low.

Christian: [22:07] Yeah. Well, and that brings up my next question. Are there any, like, immediate red flags that are deal breakers for people that they should just go, "Whoa, nope, don't buy this house"?

Brennan: [22:16] It's pretty rare. I mean, there are certain items that, for the client- Mm-hmm … could be a deal breaker. Totally. Of just, hey, we don't- Which

Christian: [22:22] is different for everyone … Brennan: yes. We just don't want- Yeah … to spend that money. We don't want to invest in this. We're looking for something that's lower maintenance. Yep. But as far as for me to tell somebody, like, "You should not buy this house"- Mm-hmm it has to be pretty severe. And typically, you know, it would be, I mean, the number one thing is foundation stuff. Yeah.

Brennan: [22:38] If it's a shoddy foundation or not built correctly, that's-

Christian: [22:42] Or say it's on, like, a hillside and it's falling or something like

Brennan: [22:44] that- Yeah, something- … Speaker: where you can see movement of some sort if you can see the impending doom- Yeah … of this house isn't- Yeah … gonna be here long. That's, that's really, like, the biggest one.

Christian: [22:53] I remember one time I talked people out of buying, it was like a $2.5 million house in Ballard overlooking the bay and stuff, kind of above, like, Golden Gardens, that area. Oh, yeah. And the train tracks are kinda down below, and, like, the hill's kinda doing this, and there's- … spots where, like, the ground is clearly, like, breaking. And I'm like, "Hmm." And then that corner of the house was also sinking, and I'm like, "Hmm." And everything else- Yeah … about the house was gorgeous, and it fit everything they wanted. And I was like, "This is a little bit of a concern." And they were like, "Oh, yeah, we never even noticed that." And this was before we even got an inspection. And they were like, "Yeah…" Now we start looking more in depth, and they're like, "Yeah, we're done."

Brennan: [23:34] Yeah, ' Speaker: cause- "We're not doing this" … I mean, and some of the, especially when you get onto hillsides where you're like- Where there's a will, there… Well, where there's money, there's a way. Yeah, yeah,

Christian: [23:41] totally. But- You can fix it,

Brennan: [23:43] but it could be a hell of a lot of money … sometimes even when you- Yeah … and when you get into those slopes, like-

Christian: [23:46] Yep … Brennan: they don't let you just do whatever you want sometimes. No. It's not- No … I wanna build a, a fortress around the front of my house. Yeah. They're like, "Sorry, it's protected habitat." Exactly.

Brennan: [23:54] Yeah. Your house is, uh-

Christian: [23:55] Yep … Brennan: it's doomed. Yeah. But- You can't do much sometimes, yeah. But there's not any, like, immediate… If you found a crack in the foundation, is that a deal breaker? 'Cause some people see that and they're like, "Oh, this house is gonna fall over."

Brennan: [24:07] I mean, it depends on the crack. I s- Totally … you see cracks in foundations all the time. All the time. Another-

Christian: [24:11] Almost every house has a crack in it probably.

Brennan: [24:12] Yeah. Another conversation that I have to kind of, you know- Yes … just inform people, like, this is normal. Concrete cracks.

Christian: [24:17] Mm-hmm.

Brennan: [24:18] It has to be… You know, we have our little limits where it's, like, over a quarter inch or if it's horizontal.

Christian: [24:22] Mm-hmm.

Brennan: [24:23] There's different ways to analyze different cracks, but overall, most concrete foundations are gonna have a little crack. It just depends on the severity. And then if you see other stuff, you know, it's, like, coupled. You're like, "Oh, it's cracked here and cracked here," and then I went inside and I noticed, like, the windows wouldn't open and the walls ki- the floor is sloping. You're like, "Okay, there's- There's a little bit bigger issue than just- Mm-hmm … a small crack in a foundation.

Christian: [24:45] And then from there it goes, well, is this a one-time the house settled 'cause it's 100 years old? Yeah. Or is this an ongoing issue? And that's something that you can't always tell during an inspection, 'cause you're just taking a snapshot in time. Yeah.

Brennan: [24:56] It's a, it's a two to three hour snapshot- Yeah … of it on this particular day- Yeah … and these weather conditions.

Christian: [25:02] Yep.

Brennan: [25:03] And yeah, and a lot of times, you know, with the older houses, a lot of them have settled.

Christian: [25:07] Mm-hmm.

Brennan: [25:08] And there will be sloped floors and- Totally … and people will get concerned about it, and then you just have to kind of look at everything in the house. That's the, I think the, the biggest thing about a home inspection is trying to, like, take the whole thing into one big picture. Mm-hmm. 'Cause it is one big functioning system-

Christian: [25:22] Yep … Brennan: that, that works together to kind of protect itself. Mm-hmm.

Brennan: [25:26] And, and a little bit of settling is natural in a house that's 100 years old, and- Totally been through six major earthquakes already, so. Yeah.

Christian: [25:33] Exactly.

Brennan: [25:33] It's, it's not always a major concern if the floor's a little sloped.

Christian: [25:37] Yep. Doesn't mean impending doom.

Brennan: [25:39] Impending doom.

Christian: [25:41] How do buyers understand, and do you help buyers understand, the potential estimate of repairs that are found during the inspection? Like, do you give them a general idea? Obviously, you're not the one doing the work or anything like that, but do you help people understand, hey, is this a $500 fix or a $5,000 fix? Ab-

Brennan: [25:56] absolutely. Like-

Christian: [25:57] Okay, cool … Brennan: yeah, whether it's a $500 fix or if it's a handyman-type thing- Mm-hmm … or a talented uncle, or if it's, "Hey, we need, you need a licensed electrician to do this." Yeah. I do my best to ballpark some figures. Some I know. Unfortunately, I'm not in the trades anymore, and I'm not- Yeah … bidding jobs, and after the pandemic, things got substantially more expensive. So it's- Exactly … it's gotten a little crazier to try and do guesstimates, but- Yep … you know- But you can give people, like, a general idea

Brennan: [26:23] of like- Absolutely yeah. We can get you in the wheelhouse and you know if it's $5,000 or $50,000.

Christian: [26:27] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I think that's kinda what people need. And if we need to go further, like for example, going back to the different types of inspections, if you have your inspection contingency included with your offer- You can actually extend your inspection period to allow yourself to get additional inspections. So if you need to get a, an electrician out- Yeah … a foundation specialist out, a roofer out, whatever it is, to look into something a little more in depth, and it extends your, or, and your inspection period's about to end, you can expe- extend it by a few days to get them out there, which is really nice.

Brennan: [27:00] Yeah. That's, I, I think that's a great thing to have built in there. Yeah. 'Cause otherwise it's, it's hard to fit just a home inspection in three to five days.

Christian: [27:08] Mm-hmm.

Brennan: [27:08] And then to try and be like, "We need an electrician and a foundation specialist out here- Yep … in the next three to five days as well."

Christian: [27:14] Yep.

Brennan: [27:14] It can get, can get cumbersome.

Christian: [27:16] Yeah. All right. The fun question. I've been waiting this whole- Oh. I teased it at the beginning.

Brennan: [27:20] Yeah, yeah.

Christian: [27:21] What is the most surprising or outlandish thing you've ever seen in a house during an inspection?

Brennan: [27:27] You know, you sent me some of these questions, and I… It, that was a tough one to kinda think of. 'Cause we, we do see a lot of weird stuff as inspectors. Yeah. Some of which might just be weird to us 'cause we're inspectors, but-

Christian: [27:37] Yeah … Brennan: I think my personal favorite that popped into my head was a guy had a, a gun range in his crawl space. So it was, it was… He had a- And, and where was this?

Brennan: [27:47] It was, I think it was Kirkland or Juanita. It was somewhere- ' Speaker: Cause I, I immediately go, like, outskirts, like- No, this wasn't, like, Snohomish County- in the woods. This was in an urban, like a suburban-

Christian: [27:59] Like Juanita or something.

Brennan: [28:00] Yeah.

Christian: [28:01] That's crazy.

Brennan: [28:02] Houses all on every side, and yeah, he had kind of, there was, like, one basement room, and then he had what we call, like, a conditioned crawl space. Mm-hmm. So it's, acts just like a mini basement.

Christian: [28:10] Mm-hmm.

Brennan: [28:11] And it was maybe 50 feet long, and at the end of it was his furnace and then his water heater on either side, and there was this, like, four-foot swath- that he put a little pulley system with a little metal target on- … and was just firing rounds down range between the gas water heater and the gas furnace.

Christian: [28:30] Oh my God.

Brennan: [28:31] There was, I, I think there was three or four, like, bullets actually stuck in the foundation- … and then a bunch of chips and stuff. And as… I, I was just admirable of his bravery to- Yeah to shoot between two gas appliances like that- … in his own house. I feel like, I feel like he fancied himself, like, a true marksman. Yeah, clearly. He's like, "I'm not gonna miss." Yeah, that was, that was, I… That was the first one that popped into my head as far as- That's crazy. Yeah … like, that's, that's wild. But that said, there was some chipping in the foundation, but it was still-

Christian: [28:57] Still good?

Brennan: [28:58] You can shoot him with guns. It was still structurally sound.

Christian: [29:00] Good to know.

Brennan: [29:02] Concrete strong.

Christian: [29:04] That is funny. I know we've talked about a lot. Is there anything that we didn't cover that you'd like to make sure that people know about home inspections?

Brennan: [29:12] I think, I mean, this won't, it won't go over well, 'cause buying a house is a stressful, intense- Mm-hmm situation.

Christian: [29:17] Mm-hmm.

Brennan: [29:18] Something I, I really feel like an inspector can do and should do is try and help alleviate some of that stress. Totally.

Christian: [29:25] Yeah.

Brennan: [29:25] I, it, it doesn't stress me out, but it kinda stresses me out how stressed people are about the- Yeah … inspection, 'cause they feel like- And they're

Christian: [29:31] scared. They under- they don't know what they're buying, and they wanna make sure they understand and they're not-

Brennan: [29:34] Yeah buying

Christian: [29:35] like a money pit.

Brennan: [29:35] They really get nervous about the inspection, and I just, I think it's important for them to understand, like, we're on your side. Like- Yeah.

Christian: [29:42] Totally … Brennan: we're here to work for you, the client. Mm-hmm.

Brennan: [29:45] We don't work for agents. We don't work for brokers. We work for the person buying or selling the house to- Yep to get the information they need. And I really hope, you know, even when it's bad news, it, it's the best news you can get- Mm-hmm … is to know, like, the exact condition of a home.

Christian: [30:00] Yeah.

Brennan: [30:01] So sometimes it, it might crush your dream of owning that beautiful home that you love so much, 'cause it's- Mm … falling off a hillside.

Christian: [30:07] Yeah.

Brennan: [30:08] But it's better to know that than to buy the home and then- And

Christian: [30:10] then find that out … Brennan: fall off the hillside with your nice house. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

Brennan: [30:14] I think, yeah, just know that we're kind of on the, on the client's side and, and just trying to help.

Christian: [30:19] Let's give people a better idea on pricing for home inspections. Mm-hmm. So is there a difference between the cost of a verbal, like, pre-inspection consultation-

Brennan: [30:27] Yeah

Christian: [30:28] Well, versus like a written report.

Brennan: [30:30] Absolutely. Okay. So verbals, because we're not documenting everything- Mm-hmm … and they go a little bit quicker, are a fair amount cheaper. For me, a verbal's 325 for an average size. It's for most homes, honestly- Yep … unless it gets really big.

Christian: [30:43] Mm-hmm.

Brennan: [30:43] And then the writtens, they start at 450.

Christian: [30:45] Mm-hmm.

Brennan: [30:46] I'm not the cheapest guy in town. You can find people that do them for 300. You can do them for 600 for the same size house.

Christian: [30:51] 300 is the cheapest I've ever heard for an inspection.

Brennan: [30:54] Yeah, I don't recommend the $300 inspection. I

Christian: [30:56] don't think I would either.

Brennan: [30:57] Like, I know what it takes to do these things. Yeah. And anybody that's willing to do it for 300 is-

Christian: [31:01] That's crazy … Brennan: they're, I don't know if they're doing the best job, but- Yeah, yeah … they're out there doing it. You get what you pay for.

Brennan: [31:06] Yeah, and it just… You know, every inspector prices differently.

Christian: [31:09] Yep.

Brennan: [31:09] I have my prices based on what I feel my skillset is. Mm-hmm. And then really the only other difference in pricing comes down to square footage in the home. Yeah. So it's essentially you start at, for me, you start at 450, and then it goes up every 500 square feet-

Christian: [31:21] Yep … Brennan: to a certain degree. If all of a sudden- Yeah you have a 25 bedroom mansion- Yeah … Brennan: give, give a phone call. We'll figure out what it's gonna cost. We'll figure it out. But, um, yeah, it's just a flat fee. You get a, you get the same service, so it's… Yeah. And then the verbals are just a little bit cheaper, I guess. Yeah, which makes sense 'cause you're not taking photos, you're not writing a report, you're not sending that over, you're not doing- Yep all that stuff. Totally makes sense. All right. Well, that's all I got for this episode of the Awesome in Seattle podcast. Brennan, thank you so much. I will put all of your contact info in the show notes. Awesome. Do you wanna at least give people maybe your website or phone number, or what the best way is to contact you if they wanna hire you?

Brennan: [31:55] Probably the easiest way to get all of that information at once would, go to the website. It's workhorseinspections.com. I have an Instagram, Workhorse Inspections.

Christian: [32:03] Cool.

Brennan: [32:03] And then phone number and all the contact info is all up there. It's on Google. It's anywhere that you-

Christian: [32:08] Google him.

Brennan: [32:09] Yep. Look for information.

Christian: [32:10] Cool.

Brennan: [32:11] All right.

Christian: [32:11] All right. Well, thank you so much for coming on the Awesome in Seattle podcast. All you buyers, reach out to him if you are interested in getting a home inspection. If you are thinking of wanting to go through this home buying process and you haven't taken that first step yet, you can always come to our free beers and home buying class. Brennan actually- That's good … came last night.

Brennan: [32:30] That's good. Yeah. I went last night. Just, I mean, I need information-

Christian: [32:33] Yeah … Brennan: that he knows that I don't know, and it was, uh, it was super informative and a really fun time. Yeah. Very casual. Super laid back. Yeah. There's no pressure.

Brennan: [32:41] Yep. Free beer. It wasn't a, like a sales pitch. No. It was just, "Here's some information. Enjoy a beer, and talk to other people that are- Yeah … interested in buying homes."

Christian: [32:49] Yeah. So they're, like, an hour, and then when people ask a ton of questions, they go a little bit longer. But last night they asked a lot of questions, and it went about an hour and a half, but it's about an hour-ish.

Brennan: [32:59] That's not a lot of time to just-

Christian: [33:00] No … Brennan: get your bearings on home buying. Exactly. So if you wanna go to one of those just go to the website beersandhomebuying.com (opens in a new tab). That's beersandhomebuying.com (opens in a new tab). And if you're ready to chat with us, if you've already come to one of those classes, and you've been listening to the podcast for a while, and you're ready to chat, the next step is super easy. You can schedule a strategy session right on our website, AwesomeNossumGroup.com/schedule. Those are totally free. It doesn't mean you have to buy a house or anything like that. It's just chatting with you so you can understand what your options are. That's it. We'll see you in two more weeks here on the Awesome in Seattle Podcast. See ya.