Buying A House After Divorce

Christian: [0:05] Hello, hello, and welcome to another episode of the Awesome in Seattle podcast. This is your host, Christian Nossum, of the Awesome Nossum Group at Wilson Realty Exchange, Inc. And today, we're talking about purchasing a home after a divorce. Now, this is something that we've kind of touched on earlier. We did an earlier episode about how to deal with the family home when a divorce is happening. But we really wanted to go to the next step, which is giving some insight on how to actually purchase a home after a divorce. So- I gotta say, the more that I have learned about this after years of helping people through this process, the more I have come to figure out you need to hire a true professional that fully understands the divorce process when it comes to buying. It is so detailed, there are so many little things that if you get it wrong, will completely derail your entire purchase process. So I brought in an expert in the lending field, Ella Bayla of True Lending Company, who we have done a few different things together and it's been really fun and a great experience. And so I wanted the expert to help from the mortgage side to help us with this process and with this podcast episode today. So Ella, thank you for joining.

Ella: [1:22] Thank you so much for having me. I, I really appreciate being here, and I agree with you 100% that having the right professionals on your team can, can really make or break your ability to purchase a home. It is- It's really as simple as that … Speaker: so true. So true. And I mean, you've shared examples in previous conversations where, you know, you've tried to help someone in the past, and the divorce had already been finalized and, you know, had they timed things out just a little bit differently, everything could have worked out just fine, but it wasn't done correctly because the people that they had hired didn't know any better, so. Exactly.

Christian: [2:05] Yeah, so I guess tell us a little background about you and how you got into this specific niche of helping people through the divorce process.

Ella: [2:14] Yes, absolutely. So my, my full name is Miha Ella Bayla. You might see that, uh, on this episode. I do go by Ella because it's a lot easier for folks to pronounce, uh, Ella than to pronounce my full name. I am an attorney. I've been practicing since 2007, but about 2019, so it's been about four or five years, I've transitioned over to lending, and all I do now is 100% divorce mortgage lending. I'm a certified divorce lending professional, and I co-founded a mortgage company out of Edmonds, Washington. And I do wanna tell you why I've done this. I've never had a desire to become a mortgage lender. I was happy, uh, being an attorney and having my own practice that I've had for, for quite a, quite a few years. But I saw a significant need in the industry when it came to folks going through a divorce, and especially the intersection of family law, tax law, financial planning, and the lending piece, and the lending programs that are only available for folks going through a divorce for a very specific amount of time, and that is called divorce mortgage planning. People who are going through a divorce, they are already experiencing so much hardship and so much heartache. It's very emotional.

Christian: [3:30] Mm-hmm.

Ella: [3:30] And what I'm seeing, most of the clients that I work with are actually single parents, and their motivation 90% of the time is that they wanna keep the family home because they don't wanna have to move their young kids. They are already experiencing so much change, and it is really hard on the kids. So to have a little bit of normalcy where one parent is able to actually keep the marital home, and experts will, uh, might chime in on this when it comes to chil- child specialists Uh, it's, it's really helpful. At least, at least it helps the parent feel like they've done everything possible to keep some things consistent in their kids' lives. Mm-hmm. And so what I've seen over the years is I've seen these parents fight really hard to keep the marital home-

Christian: [4:16] Yeah … Ella: by spending a lot of money through the divorce process. Sometimes they cash out their 401just so that they can afford an attorney- Yep, yep … Ella: with the sole purpose of, of keeping the family home. So this is what happened. I've met a client. My husband was a mortgage broker and, you know, as, I was asked to help because it was a, it was a pretty complicated divorce decree, and I was, because of my background, I was help- asked to, to review this divorce decree. Mm-hmm.

Ella: [4:44] And, um, Alice was… That's, that's, uh, what I call her.

Christian: [4:49] Yes.

Ella: [4:49] She, again, wanted to keep the marital home. She fought really hard during the divorce process, was awarded the marital home with the condition that she refinances to remove the spouse- Mm-hmm … within six months. And if she's not able to do that, she would then have to sell. And she had a pretty good income, monthly income. She had a part-time job, child support, and pretty healthy alimony of 5,000 a month. It added up to about $8,500 a month. And just like you said, Christian, she went to a regular mortgage broker and asked- Mm-hmm … "Can I qualify for a refinance?" And she was told yes. But then when she came to us after having gone back to that person, uh, who initially said yes, h- once, once he went through the process, the, his underwriter said, "No, this is not doable." And so she was looking for second opinions, and unfortunately, the answer was no, and this is because the alimony was not structured correctly.

Christian: [5:44] Yep.

Ella: [5:44] Alice needed the alimony to last a certain amount of time, and because it wasn't done in that manner, it wasn't set up correctly, none of the income, none of the alimony payments she was receiving were actually considered qualifying income for mortgage purposes, and she no longer qualified for a mortgage. And after all that heartache and all that money spent on attorneys and legal fees, she ended up having to sell the house anyway. Yeah. And it was incredibly heartbreaking, especially- Mm, yes … knowing that this was 100% preventable.

Christian: [6:19] Totally.

Ella: [6:20] Before I, I started talking with Alice, I realized that this is a huge need which makes- an incredible impact in people's lives at a very delicate point in their lives- Mm-hmm having just gone through a divorce. And I just, I had a calling. I, it became very personal for me, just because my mom was a single mom, and s- knowing what she went through and seeing these parents navigate this new life and not have the proper advice, not have the proper help ahead of time- Mm-hmm … is really devastating. And so I've decided to actually sell my law firm and become a mortgage broker with my husband, and this is what I do now full time, and exclusive- I exclusively focus on divorce mortgage planning.

Christian: [7:08] Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's so needed, and like I said the, in the intro, you have to have every little detail done correctly- Mm-hmm or it can derail everything else that you've done. Like, it's, there's so many details, and they have to be done perfect, or it's all screwed up. Like, you just spent all this money on attorneys to get all this stuff agreed to, so it, it's like, why, why would you not work with someone that is an expert on the mortgage side to help someone get it set up correctly? Because they- Exactly … yeah, you need that. So let's, let's give kind of a hypothetical. So let's say that a client is not the one keeping the family home.

Ella: [7:49] Mm-hmm.

Christian: [7:49] How do you help set the clients up for success when they're purchasing early on in this process?

Ella: [7:57] Great question. So first of all- If they are the one that is th- calling the departing spouse- Mm-hmm if they're still legally obligated on the mortgage, on the marital home mortgage, maybe the, the staying spouse can't qualify to refinance and take them off.

Christian: [8:14] Mm-hmm.

Ella: [8:14] And they're not gonna force that staying spouse to actually sell. Um, especially in this high interest rate, we're seeing a lot more couples agreeing to stay on the same mortgage for a longer period of time. It's really important that the right wording is included in your divorce decree to help you be able to basically disregard this liability, this, the, the mortgage on the marital home- Mm-hmm … from your debt-to-income ratio, so that you can go forward and apply for a mortgage and make… And be able to qualify even though you're still legally obligated on the current mortgage. There's a way to do it- Yeah … if it's done correctly. Mm-hmm. So that's the number one thing that I do. Yeah. Secondly, if you are a person that is going to be receiving any type of support income, whether it's child support or alimony, I make sure that your support is structured correctly, that the wording is there so that it doesn't harm you, and that you can actually take advantage of the, the programs available. In addition, if you are one who is paying spousal support, again, the wording, alimony, child support, and, uh, s- maintenance, spousal maintenance, they mean the same thing. But for mortgage purposes and even for the IRS, they all, uh, the different terms will have different meanings. So a professional has to go in, and if, depending on the wording that your divorce attorney used, we have to tie it all together so that when you are applying for a mortgage, if you are paying al- alimony, we can deduct that alimony from your income versus listing it as an expense, and that is going to be really beneficial to your debt-to-income ratio. So that, again, is an analysis of the support income. Whether you're paying or receiving, there's always something that can be done- Mm-hmm … to improve your, your situation. And those-

Christian: [10:11] Yeah, I was just gonna add on to that. So like how, how do you know or… I know when you're doing this you have a ton of dates and timeframes and stuff like that. Can you explain some of those timeframes that they need for both either alimony or child support or, or any of that? Like what do those look like and how do you help them figure that out?

Ella: [10:33] So I do, I have a, an initial consultation. All my consultations are free. Mm-hmm. And it, it's, it's really very drafted to the client's specific situation.

Christian: [10:43] Mm-hmm.

Ella: [10:44] And I create a very thorough report that will have all these different points and all these different deadlines and all the things that need to be done. So for example, if alimony, alimony needs to be awarded if they're going to do a refinance, we're looking at 42 to 43 months. But if we know that this client is going to need to purchase, we kn- we know that we need the alimony to be a minimum of 45 months, maybe 50 months. And then sometimes we can start clocking, we can start tolling that clock ahead of time-

Christian: [11:15] Mm … Ella: if we work with the divorce team and if the couple is in a, in a more amicable type of divorce. Yeah. So that at the end of the divorce they don't have to wait a specific amount of time for those funds to be seasoned. We can actually jump in and get them pre-qualified right away. Nice.

Ella: [11:32] So, so those are some of… Uh, I think when you're talking about timing or looking at the support income, but there are certain things that need to be set up. Like do we need a trust set up? Do we need to create income when there is an income? Maybe-

Christian: [11:45] Yep … Ella: you've sold a bunch of assets, you've sold the family home and investment home, and you have a lot of money, but you have no income. That's- Mm-hmm … that's great, but how are you going to get a mortgage- Yep … without having to waste all your assets on a home and you have nothing to live off of? Yeah. And so in that case we need to make sure that we set up a trust ahead of time and set up correctly so that it can be used as income for, for mortgage qualifying purposes. Yeah. So that's kind of if… I'm gonna restate what you basically just said, and correct me if I'm wrong, but a mortgage company, a lender, they wanna make sure that, and they want to see that you as a borrower have income. Mm-hmm. They wanna see a consistent income stream not only in the past, but also hopefully moving forward. And that's how the bank qualifies you to get a loan. And a trick or a way to get around that, I don't know if trick's the right word, but a way to get around that when all you have is a bunch of cash is you can set up a trust, have the trust basically pay you every single month so that you have this income stream so that you can then qualify for a mortgage. Did I say that correctly?

Ella: [12:55] Exactly, yes. So- Yeah … what you're referring to is, we call in the industry, the 636 rule. You need to have- Mm-hmm … six months proof of receipt of, of an income source.

Christian: [13:05] Mm-hmm.

Ella: [13:05] And that income source has to continue for another 36 months. This is especially true when it comes to support income. And, and so in cases where you don't have actual income, but you have assets, you can get creative- Mm-hmm … by using the right professionals to create an income stream that is entirely ethical.

Christian: [13:26] Mm-hmm.

Ella: [13:27] And it is ch- a strategy that's used by a lot of professionals who know what they're doing. So yeah, it's something that- Which is

Christian: [13:32] brilliant. Yeah. Mm-hmm. It's absolutely brilliant. Yeah. I have so many other … Like, my mind's going, "Oh, there's so many other creative ways I could utilize this." So I know you kind of touched on this, but I wanna make this very, very clear. A lot of times when I have clients that are going through this process and one person is keeping the home, the other person is, well, they always ask, "Well, what about my debt to income ratio?" They might not say it exactly like this, but their concern is, "Well, the mortgage is still in my name. How is this gonna affect me? How am I gonna be able to afford a house?" So can you go into that a little bit more?

Ella: [14:08] Yes. So that is a very, very common myth that- Mm-hmm … a lot of people have just because they, they're not a mortgage professional, so how- Yeah would they know any different? Mm-hmm. Um, if the divorce decree is set up correctly, and if you have the right wording- A person who is basically being bought out of the family home, who is still listed as a borrower on the, on the mar- on the mortgage for the marital home, they can then remove this liability from the debt to income ratio. So they can just disregard, it's just like not being on the loan for qualifying- Mm-hmm … purposes-

Christian: [14:48] Yeah … Ella: and be able to then qualify for a new mortgage loan on their own while still continuing to be obligated on, on the marital home with their former spouse for however many amount of years they decide to, to continue to do so. Yeah. That's, it's awesome that that's even an option. I don't think many people even realize that. And again, this is where your value as someone that is in this specific part of the industry really comes into play and is so valuable for people. And again, none of the… I've heard you talks a lot of times, so I know this, but none of your consultations upfront cost anything. I mean, I know you spend hours and hours, 'cause I've seen this, with clients. And even if they never end up being able to utilize you, you've spilt, still spent all of that time, and they get a lot of value out of it, but you actually don't end up getting paid, which is part of the process unfortunately for you. But it's also a very important part of the process because you truly want to help people, and that is your goal. And if they end up needing to get a loan, then you actually get paid at that point, but that's the only time you ever get paid, which is pretty awesome for the clients because, you know, they don't have to pay for your services-

Ella: [16:06] Yeah upfront. Yeah, exactly. It's, yeah. And, and another thing to that, to add to that, Christian, is that I've kept my attorney license, uh, for a number of reasons. One reason is for my clients to be, to feel really comfortable that, uh, everything we discuss can be confidential if they ask me to keep it confidential. Mm-hmm. But also to know that I have a duty to make sure that I put their needs first, their financial needs first before mine. Yeah. So if a mortgage is not in a client's best interest, I literally have a duty to let them know- Mm-hmm … that it's not in their best interest. So you- Yeah … explaining this to client really puts their mind at ease that I'm never going to push any type- Yeah of a program that is not really the best option for them. And- As far as charging, you know, really what we aim to do is, is help, and then the money follows. Yeah. Because when you do a good job and, and clients see that you have their best interest in mind, then that's what that matters. That's, that's really all- Yeah, exactly and at the end- Exactly … if, if they do go through and complete a loan with us, then that lender is going to pay us. So there's never an, at any point that the client is directly paying, um- Mm-hmm … me or my company for the services we provide. So I feel really good about that because it's not an- Yeah … added expense- Yeah when they're already paying out so many professionals that they have to worry about.

Christian: [17:21] Mm-hmm. Well, and I think that's what's important to, to note too on, to piggyback off of what you just said, it's there are a lot of different professionals-

Ella: [17:30] Mm-hmm … Speaker: that we work with, that we can recommend, that we can help people use that are really, really good in this industry. Uh, well, not in this industry, in this sphere, in the divorce sphere. So if people do need recommendations, we are able to hook them up with people that might be a really good fit for them, 'cause it's, there's a lot of people out there. Not everyone is gonna be a great fit for everyone else. So we can, knowing people, we can get a better, uh, sense for who might be a good fit for us to recommend to them- Absolutely and who might be a good one for them to work with. Absolutely.

Christian: [18:04] So let's go back and talk more about down payment. Mm-hmm. If someone does get a large lump sum that they could use for their down payment on their next house, how do you help them figure out how much they should use for their down payment? Is it, like, a blanket statement, "Hey, you should only do the minimum amount. You should do all of it"? Like, what do you usually… How do you help people figure out how much they should use for their down payment?

Ella: [18:32] In my prior life, I was a tax attorney, so for me- … it's all about numbers, right? Yeah, yeah. And, uh, this is why I love what I do, because I can bring that, that experience that I have. And so when I go through my analysis with clients, I provide a report that has several options. And with purchasing a place, I show them what it looks like on paper if they have the means to only use… What does it look like to only use the minimum amount for a down payment versus using the full amount? What does that do to their monthly payment? Are there be- better ways to invest those funds where you have a higher return on, on your investment? Are they working with a financial professional who can advise them on that? Because I don't want to, to really step out of my lane and give them, uh, financial planning advice, but I, I know enough to, to see when there's a need for- Mm-hmm that discussion to take place.

Christian: [19:26] Yep.

Ella: [19:26] So the way that I really do it is I show them the pros and cons of putting down the minimum versus putting down the full amount, and provide them all that information so my clients can make an informed decision about what really makes sense to them in their lives at that specific point in time.

Christian: [19:42] Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, that's smart. I mean, and it's gonna be a personalized situation for everyone, and you having such a crazy awesome background- … is, like, so unique, 'cause most people in mortgage, I know a lot of people in mortgage, generally they're just, like, they were doing sales in something before and now they're selling mortgages. Like, that's kinda how that transition generally goes. That is not you at all,

Ella: [20:07] and that's-

Christian: [20:08] I'm backwards. Exactly. The exact opposite, really.

Ella: [20:10] Yeah.

Christian: [20:11] Yeah. Um, all right, one last question from me, and that is, in a post-divorce, I guess, context- Does the money need to be seasoned? And what's the, what would you say, kinda, is the average amount that people put down when they're buying post-divorce? Because I know for the average buyer, it's, like, 5 to 7% in a normal buyer. Mm-hmm. But in post-divorce, just out of curiosity, is it a lot more? Is it less? Is it still the same?

Ella: [20:40] That's a really good question and, and that, uh, again, is going to be, it depend on, on the client and what they have available.

Christian: [20:47] Mm-hmm.

Ella: [20:47] Whenever possible, we do try to, to help them put 20 to 25% down because that really gives them the best pricing.

Christian: [20:55] Mm-hmm.

Ella: [20:55] So again, from a financial standpoint, what is the best option for you? What, what best advice can I give you-

Christian: [21:01] Yep … Ella: where it makes more sense, even that, if that may mean a lower loan amount. Mm-hmm.

Ella: [21:07] Uh, as, as mortgage brokers, we get paid based on the amount of the loan. Mm-hmm. And so if, if you're going to be, as a client, be putting down a, a higher amount for a down payment, some professionals may not like that because they're going to be paid a lot less. But if, if that makes more sense for you and you're actually getting a lower interest rate, and it's a better financial decision for you, then that's the decision I'm go- that's the option I'm going to recommend.

Christian: [21:34] Yeah. That makes sense.

Ella: [21:37] So Christian, I know that you've had some really good questions for me, but I really wanna hear a little bit more about this process from what your point of view and your experience in helping a lot of clients who are in the process of purchasing a home post-divorce. So in, in your experience, is the home buying process different for someone who is, has just gone through a divorce? Is it the same? What, what's the difference?

Christian: [22:03] Yeah, there's a lot of overlap, but there are definitely some differences, especially with timing, financing, like you just went over. I mean, that's the biggest difference is the financing piece. If they don't get that right because they're not working with someone that understands it, they're probably not gonna be able to buy. Yeah. I mean, that's just the truth, unfortunately. So I c- I'm gonna reiterate it over and over. Use someone like Ela that knows their stuff so that you can actually successfully buy post-divorce, 'cause it's, it's so hard for us to see when someone has gone through this process and did it, missed a step, or did something just slightly wrong, and it just screws up the whole thing, so. So yeah, it, it really does have a lot of similarities to buying, like, normal, but also there are some differences. There's a lot of tools that we use to really help people, and it's the same tools that we use when we're helping any buyer, and the biggest one that we do is the sold search. The sold search is, and I've talked about this on lots of episodes, we talk about it in all of our home buyer classes that we do every month as well, but it's so important, especially in a post-divorce situation. Because it helps you understand what you can afford and where you can afford it, and if it even makes sense to buy or not, and that's really what you wanna know at the end of the day. Does this even make sense? Can I afford what I want? And so what we do with the sold search is once you have your budget figured out with Ela, once she straightens that out and you have a really clear idea of what your budget is gonna be, then I show you, I build a map showing you, based on a lot of different criteria, but basically, you know, the standard beds, baths, square footage, and location, and I can help you understand that location with some different tools that I have. But I help you see on a map what has sold over the last two to three months And why this is important is you need to understand your specific market, and you need to know what it is that you're getting yourself into. Because if you are hoping to purchase something at a budget that makes sense for you, now that you got that figured out, and then you go out there and you see based on this sold search that what you want and what you thought you could buy isn't actually possible, it's better to know that upfront before you start spending- Exactly months and months looking at homes and making offers that are not gonna get accepted. So in the sold search, exactly what I do is I create that map, I create that criteria, and I add it all in there. And hopefully you'll have about 50 to 100 properties that pop up that have recently sold that meets all of your criteria in the areas you wanna be. And your homework then is to go through those homes and choose the ones that you would have bought So m- maybe out of that 50 or 100, maybe there's, like, 15 to 20 homes that you would've bought. You send those back to me, and what I do is I look at the data from that, and I go, "Okay, well, the average list price to sale price ratio is blank," whatever that is. Maybe it's 106% over the asking price, which means things are selling for 6% over. Mm-hmm. Which if that's the case, that means every time a house comes on the market that meets your criteria, and you… it catches your eye, and you're like, "This might be a good one," assume that it's gonna sell for about 6% over the asking price- Right if not more.

Ella: [25:43] Mm-hmm.

Christian: [25:44] And that is the true price, not the asking price, 'cause that's totally different. Now, if the market changes a little bit, and things are sitting for a while, and things are only selling for, you know, 98% of the asking price, well, then you get to know, okay, well, on these homes that have sat for a while, for two, three, four weeks, maybe two months, three months, those ones, 'cause th- we might get conflicting data. So on the homes that have been sitting for a while, they might be selling for 96% or 98% of the asking price with some seller credits added in. So that's a totally different deal. We also will pull that data and find out what is the average days on market. And like I was just alluding to, sometimes there's a break. Mm-hmm. Sometimes there's a group that sell in a week, and they're selling for over the asking price, and then there's another group that sits for a month or two or three, and they're selling for under the asking price. And that's really important for you as the buyer to understand as well because when you see something come on that seems overpriced, and it doesn't sell within a week, you have a pretty good idea that it's probably gonna sell for a little bit under the asking price, and it might take, you know, three, four, five, six weeks or more. So we just have to… Going through that process, again, it's totally free for you. This is something I provide for all of my clients that are buying to really calibrate you to your specific market. So one other thing that I wanna point out that I have is a tool that is like a commute map. So you can use a specific commute to figure out w- your areas that you wanna be in. So if you need to be both no more than 45 minutes from work, arriving at a very specific time- Then I can create that map. On top of that, if you need to be within 20 minutes of your ex-spouse because you have kids that you share and you don't wanna be super far away, I can create another map on top of that. And if you also need to be within, you know, 15 or 20 minutes of your kids' school, then I can create another m- map on top of that, and all of these maps overlay, and I can just highlight the all the overlapping maps section, and that is now your search criteria area.

Ella: [27:59] Which is really helpful, 'cause then it-

Christian: [28:01] Super helpful

Ella: [28:02] it helps clients narrow down their search significantly.

Christian: [28:05] Yep, exactly. And then that also helps them understand, well, here are all the areas that I'm interested in. I don't actually know about these other areas on this map.

Ella: [28:14] Mm.

Christian: [28:15] I need to learn about those neighborhoods- Right … and then go explore and see if I actually like it. Mm-hmm. And a good tip that we give people is if there are neighborhoods that you don't really know, go rent an Airbnb in that neighborhood.

Ella: [28:26] Interesting.

Christian: [28:27] Stay there during the week. Stay there for a night or two, and live like you would normally. Like, commute to work, go to, go to the kids' school. Do whatever you would normally do. Walk your dog at night and see if you feel safe. All of those things. Go to the grocery store. See how you like… Like, live like you are a local, and that really helps to narrow down and sometimes remove a neighborhood from your search criteria. All right. One other tool that we use, and that's kind of a tool that we use, but it's something that you can learn about as bu- as a buyer, is house hacking. And house hacking is a super powerful thing that can help you stay in the same neighborhood or school district as before, and this doesn't mean necessarily that you're gonna have roommates or anything like that. This could just mean that maybe you have a mother-in-law apartment, otherwise known as an ADU, on the property. Because, uh, for a lot of people- Mm … they're going from two incomes down to one.

Ella: [29:25] Right.

Christian: [29:26] And the home in the area that you might wanna be in might not be as affordable with only one income. So house hacking is a good way to stay in that area, because you can rent out a portion of the property and maybe, like I said, it's an ADU. Maybe it's a DADU, which is- A DADU? … a backyard cottage. DADU, D-A-D-U. Detached accessory dwelling unit-

Ella: [29:51] Okay … Speaker: that you can have in the back, like a backyard cottage, that you could rent out that. Interesting. Or maybe you, if you got a big lump sum, you could build one of those in the back and sell that off, 'cause you're gonna be able to… In Seattle, you can already do this. Statewide, come next summer, you're gonna be able to do this as well. That's July 2024. You're gonna be able to do this as well, and that's gonna be huge. Wow. So you could then sell that off. They cost… They're not cheap. They're, like, $350 a square foot, so it could be around 350 to $400,000 to build if you build 1,000 square feet. But depending on the area, it could sell for 700,000 or 750 or 800. And so you could then take the profit from that to pay down your principal balance on your loan and help you af- be able to afford that lower monthly payment. Sure. Like, there's a lot of different creative ways that we can go about trying to keep you in the neighborhood you wanna be in, and it doesn't mean having a roommate, 'cause you don't wanna have a roommate. Well, nobody really does, so. That, that's great to know. I- Yeah … I didn't know about that.

Christian: [30:58] Yep.

Ella: [30:58] That's really interesting.

Christian: [31:00] Yeah, and that's something that personally we are doing. Like, I'm actually building two DADUs as we speak- Ooh … um, in Seattle that we will be selling off. And so we have a lot of experience in that, and we're happy to help other people learn how to do that as well.

Ella: [31:13] That's, that's amazing.

Christian: [31:15] Yeah. All right. So I wanted to ask you, Ela, about how clients navigate the emotional side of all of this. Once they do find out what they can afford, going from two incomes down to one is hard, and your standard of living often does change. How do you help people navigate that process?

Ella: [31:35] Yeah. It's, that's a, it's a good question. It's, it's a very delicate situation.

Christian: [31:41] Mm-hmm.

Ella: [31:41] What I often find is that when clients talk to me and they, they… You know, I'm naturally just a, a very calm person.

Christian: [31:48] Mm-hmm.

Ella: [31:49] And I try to help with providing information in the way that- the client can best receive. So some- sometimes I might find a fellow numbers person in, in my client, and then it's all about the numbers, right? Mm-hmm. It's all about that budget. It's all about, well, let's take a look at what your income is. Let's take a look at where your expenses are. Let's figure out your budget and figure out how much you actually want to be spending per month on housing. Because as I mentioned before, it doesn't make any sense for me to try to qualify you for a mortgage, where at the top of your budget where you have no money for food and you end up having to eat ramen or, or cat food- Mm-hmm for the next five years.

Christian: [32:32] Yeah, yeah. And no- We don't want you to be house poor … Ella: nobody wants to do that. No.

Ella: [32:36] And so when I go through my, through my process, when I go through my consultation with clients, I gather a lot of information first about where they are both emotionally and financially, and what they actually… What are their goals? Mm-hmm. What are their goals? And not just, do they wanna keep a house, be bought out? Do they wanna sell and move away? Yep. Uh, but also, what are their goals as far as the numbers? How much do they want to spend per month on housing? And then I p- I create a very, very thorough report for them with all kinds of different scenarios that they can think about and use as, as concrete numbers they can compare from. Yeah. Okay, what… This is what it's going to look like if I stay. Mm-hmm. And this means that it's going to mean this for me emotionally, and it's going to, uh, to mean this for me financially every month. Versus if I sell, I can expect to get this much, and I can have- Yep … you work with Christian. Christian will c- create a report for you that will show you w- if you were to sell- Mm-hmm after you pay off your mortgage, how much can you actually- And all the other costs. Yeah … exactly. How can you- Mm-hmm … how much can you actually expect to receive in hand?

Christian: [33:43] Mm-hmm.

Ella: [33:43] And then taking that amount, what can we qualify you for, for a purchase? Exactly. And then looking at all the different options like I mentioned before, be you still putting down the minimum, putting down the maximum. Mm-hmm. And so it's all about- W- what support do you need emotionally?

Christian: [33:59] Yeah

Ella: [34:00] But I find that a lot of times if you're someone that's really consistent, and you're someone that's really calm and s- and really professional- Mm-hmm … and you provide them with information that they can use to make informed decisions, it's really what these clients need. Yeah. And sometimes, you know, you, you have to understand and meet them where they are, because it is a very difficult and sensitive transition to go from a house where… You know, no one gets married thinking they're going to get divorced, right? No. So this is a very, very difficult and very emotional process. But if you can have empathy and be professional and provide value, that's what makes… That's what matters to, to people going through this process.

Christian: [34:40] Yeah. Yeah, and I feel like buying after a divorce seems to help a lot of people mentally. Like, their mental health is a lot better, from my experience at least. I don't know if you feel the same way, but I feel like the people that do buy, it sets them up for, like, a fresh start.

Ella: [35:03] Mm-hmm.

Christian: [35:04] And they feel like they're, they're made… They made some good decisions even though the divorce happened and all that, but they made some good decisions and they were able to buy. And this is not a sales pitch telling people to buy, so don't take it like that. I'm just telling you from my perspective and experience, the people that did buy after and kind of started fresh, it really helped them get over it a little bit more.

Ella: [35:26] Close that chapter and open a

Christian: [35:27] new one. Exactly.

Ella: [35:28] Start a

Christian: [35:28] new one. And open a new one. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. But the only way to do that, again, is to start this process early. The mortgage planning process, you have to start it so early because there's so many details that you gotta get right, and if the divorce is already finalized, it's too late.

Ella: [35:46] Exactly, and that is really crucial, and I really want to hammer that point home- Mm-hmm because I've seen so many cases where they've come to me after the divorce is done, and there's nothing that we can do. But if you… If I'm able to help you through that divorce process, I basically create a roadmap for you-

Christian: [36:04] Yeah … Ella: with all the points that you actually need to negotiate or ask for during the divorce process to make sure you end up being able to meet your goals, whatever your goals may be- Yeah at the end of the divorce. But if you go in, into this process without a map- You may get there eventually, but it may- Yep … you may have to go through a lot of di- different detours versus if you let the professionals create a map for you- Mm-hmm … with all the specific steps that you need- Mm-hmm … and all the points that you need to, to ask for and negotiate on, then you're going to be in a much better position and get there a lot quicker with a lot of less heartache and, and generally with, um, um, a lot less cost associated with that. Yeah. And, and the emotional- Exactly … stress, uh, that goes along with it. So again- Exactly … Ella: get your, get your divorce mortgage planning done as soon as you know that, um, this is a possibility. Yep.

Ella: [37:01] The consultations are free. I, between Christian and I, we also know a lot of- professionals in the area, divorce attorneys, mediators. Mm-hmm. We can tell you about our experience in working with them, and once we get to know you and your personality, we can make a recommendation for a legal professional that would be a really good fit for you.

Christian: [37:22] Exactly.

Ella: [37:22] Um, so you don't necessarily have to even start your divorce process. You can come talk to us first, and then we can- Yep put you in touch with all the right people.

Christian: [37:29] Yep, and that's, I mean, in addition to often, us often getting referred by the attorneys that we know to help people, we're doing the same exact thing, but the other way around, where we can, based on their personality, like, help them-

Ella: [37:44] Yeah … Speaker: get, get in touch with someone that could make sense for them. I wanted to piggyback also on the roadmap that you're able to help them create is in line with the roadmap that I help them create- Exactly … on the buying side. And working as a team, the two of us together, really helps make this process a lot less stressful, a lot less emotional. You already have enough emotions going in this whole thing. You don't need the home buying process to be extra emotional as well. So with all of the information that I provide on the agent side, and that Ella provides on the mortgage side, it's gonna take this emo- emotional rollercoaster of home buying from a Six Flags rollercoaster- … down to that little kid rollercoaster at the fair, and, and that's the goal. We talk about that a lot when we talk with people. And it's, it's really true, 'cause the more information that we can give people upfront, the easier it is for you as a buyer to understand if it makes sense for you to do this or not. Exactly.

Christian: [38:50] And sometimes it makes more sense to rent. And if you're gonna rent, and you think it's gonna be a year or so, then you should probably get a long-term rental. But if you think it's gonna be maybe a shorter term, maybe three to six months- Mm-hmm … it might make more sense for you to do, like, a midterm rental, maybe even one that's fully furnished. And, uh, I guess I can give a tip right here. So Furnished Finder is a website. Furnished Finder is a website, um, similar to Airbnb, but it's for- midterm rentals, which are three to six-month terms, and they're often, they're often furnished. And that's what a lot of, like, traveling nurses use, and people that are, you know, going from city to city and staying for a while, and they don't have a U-Haul full of their bed and mattress and couch and, you know, all that stuff, 'cause that just doesn't make sense for their life. So this is something that could work. You know, an Airbnb obviously is a, is another way to go about that. Those can be a little more expensive, but with Airbnb you can often negotiate if you're staying for over a month. Sometimes there's automatic discounts applied, but you can potentially even negotiate one-on-one with the owner to try and reduce that fee, uh, if you plan to stay for, you know, an extended period. So just a couple- Yeah … tips right there. Ella, anything else you would like to share before we wrap this up?

Ella: [40:13] I'm just sitting here feeling really impressed and seeing how much passion you have for your clients, doing all this research for them so that you really are a resource for them and- Mm-hmm … in helping them with, okay, well, if your, if your plan is less than six months, then here's a way you can get around that if you, you shouldn't be getting into a rental contract for that long. So- Yeah … all of the… You think about all the different possibilities and eventualities- Yes … that might come up, and you help create a plan. And I appreciate that in you, because it's really hard to find professionals who really take their work so seriously like you do, and provide so much value for clients. So I think your clients are really fortunate to work with you, and I also feel really fortunate to work with you and, and really look out for our clients and provide a lot of value. So thank you for all that you do. Um-

Christian: [41:06] Well, thank you. That was really nice to hear. I appreciate that. Yeah, and I feel pretty much exactly the same way about you. I mean, the fact that… And I'm actually gonna go on and on and gush and gush, 'cause I could, but I'm not going to. But I do wanna say that having worked with a lot of lenders, and I'm gonna say it again 'cause I've said it a lot, but you h- if you're going in after a divorce, you have to work with someone like Ella. And if you're in the Seattle area, just use her. She's amazing. She understands all the details. Her attorney background and is just- I don't know if anyone else in this industry has any of that background, and it's so important to make sure you have all those details figured out correctly up front, 'cause it can, like I said, screw up this whole thing. So it's-

Ella: [41:51] Perfectly

Christian: [41:52] said. Yeah … it's really awesome. Yeah. Thank you. It's really awesome that you're here to help people as well.

Ella: [41:56] I appreciate the chance to be here. Thank you so much.

Christian: [41:59] If, if people wanna reach out to you, what is the best way they can get ahold of you?

Ella: [42:02] Sure. Uh, you can call, uh, the, the company's called True Lending Company. Mm-hmm. The phone number is 425-222-2000. You can look us up at true- truelendingco.com. Uh, you can Google True Lending Company. You can email me. My email is my first initial, which again, my name is Mihaela. I do go by Ela, but it's Mihaela. So my email is mbayla, that's M as in Mary, B as in bravo, A-Y-L-A, @truelendingco.com. And you can reach out, schedule a free consultation with me, and then we can see what we can do to help you or at least point you in the right direction.

Christian: [42:43] Yep. And after you chat with her, or you can just reach out to me first too, it doesn't really matter. Either one of us is fine. Mm-hmm. For us, it's simple to reach out and schedule something. You can schedule a Zoom appointment right online at AwesomeNossumGroup.com/schedule. They're called strategy sessions, and they are completely free, just like Ela. We're not gonna charge you anything to chat with you one-on-one and just really help you understand what is even possible. 'Cause at the end of the day, that's all we want you to have, that information. We want you to understand, can I buy, where can I buy, and what can I buy, and then help you figure out the timeline, help you figure out budget. All those other details will come, but you just gotta make that first step, which is just reaching out so that we can help you and, and we can get that process started. So thank you again, Ela, so much for coming on and sharing all of this knowledge. I think this might be one of our more detailed and better podcast episodes after 100 plus and four plus years, so that's saying something. I really, really appreciate your time and, and energy that you spent on this. And so, yeah, I hope that you're gonna be able to help a lot of people.

Ella: [43:57] Thank you so much for having me and for your trust, and I look forward to working with you and-

Christian: [44:01] All right … Ella: helping your clients. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's it for this episode of the Awesome in Seattle podcast. We'll see you again in two weeks. See ya.

Ella: [44:09] Have a good one. Take care.

Christian: [44:10] Bye.